Tapping into the Power of a Niche Market

Have you ever wondered what happens when you stop trying to serve everyone and double down on one niche you know inside out? That’s exactly what Julie Lawless did. From corporate comms for brands like Nissan and Mars Petcare to running her own firm in animal health and AgTech, Julie has built a business that thrives because it’s focused. In this episode, we unpack how she made that shift, moving from hourly billing to retainers, building a standout reputation in a small industry, and leading a team that runs smoothly without her in every single detail.

If you’ve been thinking about specializing or tightening your focus, you’ll take a ton of practical insight from this one. Enjoy.

In this episode you will learn:

• How to successfully transition from a corporate career to a specialized consulting firm.

• The power of niching down in a small but high-value industry like animal health.

• Strategies for proving market demand and overcoming initial concerns about a narrow focus.

• How to demonstrate clear ROI for services like PR and communications.

• Balancing a client portfolio between innovative startups and stable enterprise accounts.

• Transitioning from hourly billing to a more stable and profitable retainer model.

• Building a proactive, ownership-driven team that allows the founder to step back.

• Effective, low-cost event-based networking strategies that convert clients.

Welcome to the Consulting Success podcast. I’m your host Michael Zipursky, and in this podcast, we’re going to dive deep into the world of elite consultants where you’re going to learn the strategies, tactics and mindset to grow a highly profitable and successful consulting business.

Before we dive into today’s episode. Are you ready to grow and take your consulting business to the next level? Many of the clients that we work with started as podcast listeners just like you, and a consistent theme they have shared with us is that they wished they had reached out sooner about our Clarity Coaching Program rather than waiting for that perfect time. If you’re interested in learning more about how we help consultants just like you, we’re offering a free, no pressure growth session call. On this call, we’re going to dive deep into your goals, challenges and situation and outline a plan that is tailor made just for you. We will also help you identify where you may be making costly and time consuming mistakes to ensure you’re benefiting from the proven methods and strategies to grow your consulting business. 

So don’t wait years to find clarity. If you’re committed and serious about reaching a new level of success in your consulting business, go ahead and schedule your free growth session. Get in touch today. Just visit Consulting Success – Grow to book your free call today.

With over two decades in corporate communications at Elanco, Mars Petcare, and Nissan, Julie Lawless is a proven leader in strategic communications. A Pet Age “Woman of Influence,” she notably managed Elanco’s IPO and the landmark acquisition of Bayer Animal Health. In 2022, she founded Lawless Comms to provide purpose-driven counsel in M&A, crisis, and ESG communications to the animal health, veterinary, and food production industries, leveraging her deep expertise to make a positive impact.

Connect with Julie Lawless
Discover more about Lawless Comms

Welcome, Julie.

Welcome, Michael.

Yeah. Excited for this conversation. I’ve had the pleasure of seeing a bit behind the scenes of your business and the growth you’ve created. Very excited to share your story. And why don’t we get started by going back a little bit? Just where did you grow up? What were your early days like before getting into entrepreneurship and running this business?

I’ll go in the way-back machine. So I grew up, actually, on a farm, a cattle farm in Bismarck, Missouri, which is a little bit south of St. Louis. I spent time in St. Louis. I was actually a TV reporter and field producer for a couple of years. Hated it, hated it. I realized what I didn’t want to do, and then I went into corporate communications in-house with Nissan, Elanco, some big brands. And so that’s where I’ve spent most of my career, too.

[01:48] – Discovering a High-Value Niche in Animal Health

And so if we look at Lawless Comms today, you do a lot of work in animal health, veterinary, you know, food production, but really around that kind of space. Can you just talk, maybe just define, describe a little more of the specialization and focus that you have? And then how did you end up in that space? Because you just talked about automakers and a whole bunch of other stuff.

It’s interesting. I would say you helped me figure out a bit of where I wanted to specialize. And I did. I bounced around a couple of industries. You know, in the early 2000s, it was tech before the tech bubble burst, and then it was autos with, you know, with Nissan. But really, I found my heart and my passion for pets and the power of pets and how they can really heal people when I was at Mars Petcare. And Mars Petcare makes pet food, that’s their biggest business, and they have veterinary as well.

So I spent my time there. Then I went to Elanco Animal Health, which was the animal health spin-out of Lilly, which is a human pharmaceutical company. Elanco is the animal pharmaceutical company. So really, you know, I kind of have grown up in pet and pharma from that point of view. So I really, you know, all my connections are there. So when I was thinking about starting my own communications firm, that was kind of a no-brainer because it didn’t really exist in, you know, animal pharma.

[03:31] – Proving Market Demand in a Small Industry

You never felt pulled or torn to get, you know, let’s say, more involved in consulting in automotive or technology because you had experience in those. For you, it sounds like it was a clear, ‘Hey, this is where I want to go. This is the direction. I feel it in my heart, in my soul, but also based on network and connections.’ Is that is that correct?

Yeah, that is exactly correct. And you know, I mean even from- I spend kind of my volunteerism time, I was the past chair of Pet Partners Pet Therapy. We go into hospitals here in Indianapolis and do some work with kids. So it just, it’s really, it’s my passion, right? And it’s really easy to wake up every day and be excited about what we’re doing.

How many communications companies are there that specialize and focus on pets and animals?

Yeah, it’s about as many as you can put in this hand.

When you were thinking about really, you know, kind of refocusing or putting all of your energy or kind of all of your eggs in one basket around pets and animals, did you ever feel concerned that there’s enough of a market here? Or maybe put another way, what spoke to you and told you, ‘Hey, there is a market, I should build my business around this’?

[04:51] – Winning With Deep Regulatory and Sector Expertise

Yeah, absolutely. I was concerned because, you know, while it’s a growing and maturing market, it’s still relatively small compared to other markets.

Now we do some adjacencies into food and beverage because I’ve got a little bit of experience there, and so do my folks around manufacturing of food. So we do some work there, but really we focus in animal health and animal nutrition and AgTech. So it was actually working with my Consulting Success coaches to say, ‘Do I go that niche with it?’ And boy, it’s really been a key to our success because we’re a highly regulated industry. So you really have to understand how to talk about medicines or where they’re at in the regulatory process, what you can say, what you can’t say. So when I was in that industry working in-house, it was really hard to find folks that we could bring in from an agency who knew that stuff, and we didn’t have to rewrite it. So we just sort of, we say, ‘We’re the experts working in your industry,’ which we really were.

I think it’s very powerful that you’ve been able to kind of arrive at and find this, we could call it a ‘blue ocean,’ right, where there’s a lot of opportunities, even though the market is small. It’s way larger than any one firm could manage. So you’re in a great place with not a lot of competition. You’ve established your expertise there, so that’s fantastic.

[06:37] – Showing Clear ROI of PR and Communications

Talk a little bit about, you know, PR communications is often viewed as a cost center or, you know, something that people don’t always see the connection between that work and ROI. How have you navigated those conversations, or what do you communicate to prospective clients or existing clients so they can really see the value of doing PR communications and that type of work?

I think it’s gotten better. I think in this age of social media, podcasts, everybody’s out there and can do it a little more, probably economically, than they probably could 10 years ago. But you’re right, you still, I run into startups every day. There are a lot of startups in the pet space because, you know, there’s a lot of great ideas bubbling out there around pets. And so we talk to startups who are looking for investors, who are looking for funding. And so we talk to them about really the ROI of building a reputation, and they see it really quickly when they buy in. And we often say, ‘Okay, let’s do kind of a pilot with you. Let’s do an intro offer where we’re going to work for this amount of time, we’re going to do these activities, and you’re going to see quickly, you’re going to see it flip.’ And they really do. You really can make a difference.

[08:14] – How Startup PR Drives Investor Attention

What’s the flip, Julie, for them? Is it like they’re just going to get more media mentions? Or what’s the metric? And I know there’s lots of different variables here, but just generally, maybe could you mention a couple of different use cases or things that you focus on in those conversations that kind of click into place for them so they can see?

I’ll give an example of a client that we had who was just really starting out, starting to build their business. We did a series of press releases. We, you know, put together some, they had a few bits of news, and they got a call from an investor in India who said, ‘Hey, I saw your story on XYZ, and I’m really interested in your company and investing in it.’ So that sort of name recognition, and this is a small industry, so entering the right way, we know folks in the industry, so we’re able to make those connections for them as well and guide them on what to do and what not to do, how you even talk in this industry. So I think seeing that real-time feedback from people in such a close industry is a real selling point for them.

[09:38] – Balancing Startups and Enterprise Client Portfolios

So you brought up working with startups. There’s a lot of innovation in this space, but you also work with enterprise, right, very large, well-established organizations. That can often be a challenge or a bit of a sticking point for many consulting business owners. You built up a nice-sized business here, you’re continuing to grow, you built a team. How do you personally think about that, or how have you navigated this challenge that people often have? It’s like, ‘Yeah, there’s excitement, it’s fun working with startups, they’re more innovative, they can make decisions faster, but they can’t always pay at the same level that a larger organization can.’ Just walk me through what’s been your experience there and where have you landed today in terms of how you think about the different sizes of market potential or client potential?

That’s really apparent, I think, when you see some of the larger clients that do call us and really, they’ve got, ‘Hey, we have a large-scale change initiative.’ We do a lot of change management work. So they may be going through some reductions in force, they may be going through a merger, acquisition, so we’ll come in and help them with that. And you know, I think, what I- I really did sweat this out, and you know it.

Yeah, I remember having some conversations with you, but yeah.

I’ve sweated this out on, ‘Okay, how am I going to be able to handle this?’ And it was really good advice from coaches, from others who were, ‘You know what, take every meeting, find out about it, and then build my pipeline of folks.’ I have a really great group of partners who help me with graphics, who help me with video, who come in and out based on the project. There is a whole world of us out there who have come from the corporate side. We’ve likely taken a package from somewhere, and we’re like, ‘We don’t want to go back.’ And that’s kind of the group that I’ve assembled, and they are amazing people. We rely on each other, and I think you’ll find consultants help consultants.

Would you say that right now for you, in terms of the type of business that you’re going after, is it more on the enterprise side or kind of mid-sized to large-sized organizations, or are you targeting more startups? Or do you have a certain percentage of the bucket that you say, ‘I’m okay keeping it startups here, but the rest I want here.’ Just walk us through how you think about that part.

Because we’re a small industry, I want to be very careful about how many of the large strategics that I partner with because we just feel like we want to be, you know, be very selective in who we want to partner with. Same thing for the startups, because there are startups that have kind of the similar thing. So a lot of times, it’s the people for me, not so much the size, the business that matters. So what are their values?

[12:54] – Pricing Strategy and Moving Away From Hourly

Do you keep your pricing the same? Like is the line in the sand for you deciding whether to work with somebody or not? Is it, ‘As long as, they’re a startup but as long as they can pay whatever our starting point fees are, we’re okay with that.’ So it’s not so much about the size, but it’s more about- and the reason I’m bringing this up, I spoke to a consultant the other day, very, very smart person, and they told me, ‘Listen, you know, I have some clients that pay me $2,500 a month, I have some clients that pay me $20,000 a month.’ And I thought, that’s really interesting that you would do that. Is that really, like there’s so much to be explored in ‘Why are you working with some at this level and some at that level?’ There’s likely some optimization that could be had there. And so I’m wondering for you as well, you know, you talk to some startups, I’m sure, that maybe can’t afford the fees that others are able to pay. So how do you kind of navigate that from a pricing perspective?

I will often look at, are they a disruptor in the industry? So we will work with folks who are disrupting in a positive way. And we can, because we’ve been around in this industry for a while, we’ve got a pretty good idea who we think they’re going to really- they’re either going to be purchased by one of the big strategics, or they’re going to be a hit. So yeah, sometimes we’ll just really look at the situation not from just dollars and cents, but, ‘Hey, I want to be backing a winner.’ That’s super important for me, is to back a winner. So our roster of clients, they’re winners. And they’re winners with values. That is- I can’t tell you how incredibly important that is where we don’t, you know, we’re very selective in who we choose to work with.

[14:46] – Scaling While Maintaining Personal Quality

That makes a lot of sense. And I mean, I guess the other question I have for you related to this is, you’ve now built the business. It’s, you know, bigger than you. You have team members in different capacities. How have you thought about this tension that can sometimes exist between wanting to grow and scale the business, but not losing that personal touch or making sure that you’re able to still deliver the level of experience, the excellence, you know, the quality that you were known for when the business was much smaller?

Well, that’s like a million-dollar question.

It’s at least a million. It’s at least a million.

It’s at least a million dollars, probably more.

Like, what just comes to mind for you? What have you had to work through on that? Or what are you maybe still feeling like you’re working through on that?

[15:33] – Building a Proactive, Ownership-Driven Team

You know, it’s always something we’re working through. And I have to fight the tendency. I have a high inclusion score, so I want to be included on everything. I FOMO if, and I’m like, ‘Ooh, but I want to be in on that project.’ And I have a great group of folks who say, ‘Give that to me. It’s time for you to give that to me.’ ‘Okay, thank you.’ And I know that I have to surround myself with those sorts of folks that will, that are not afraid and say, ‘Hey, Julie, this one’s for me.’ But we also spend time, we’re getting ready to go next week and spend time together as a group of us to come together and say, ‘Okay, what are our processes? What are our, you know, what’s our strategy for the coming year? What do we need to be looking at? What are the tools we’re using?’ So we’re constantly having these conversations. We use CliftonStrengths. When we talk, we have a certain language that we talk about. Like I know that I’m a developer, I know I’m positive, I know other folks are rigorous, and that helps keep us on track.

I want to go a little bit deeper into that because when you just described that you have people on your team that say to you proactively, ‘Hey, Julie, give me this stuff,’ right? That’s something that for I think a lot of founders in their business, they want. First of all, there’s fear to delegate because you’re concerned about, ‘Will I lose excellence? Can we deliver the quality that we want to?’ But they don’t necessarily have people surrounding them who are proactively trying to get things off of their plates and saying, ‘Hey, I can do that. I can do that better.’ If you really kind of think about this, and maybe it jumps out or maybe it doesn’t, but what do you think has been the biggest reason for why your team members are proactive in that way? Is there something that you’ve done in terms of setting standards, expectations, conversations? I mean, you talk about CliftonStrengths. Is there anything that you feel has really contributed to having those kinds of people around you that are really – they’re not just sitting back waiting for you to tell them what to do as a leader, they’re actually becoming leaders themselves, it sounds like, and they’re trying to take things off of your plate and, you know, help you through that process.

It’s an expectation, a conversation that we have. If you’re working on my team, you know that I’m very open, I’m pretty vulnerable about, ‘Here’s who I am, here’s how I operate, and if you see me doing XYZ, step up and tell me.’ I don’t get mad. I try to stay pretty even and positive.

And when do you have that conversation? Is that when you bring somebody on right away, or-

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, so you’re doing it early on. And then do you continue to remind people, or like-

I continue to remind people. And I think I say it quite often, I’m not the most organized person, so I’ve got to have systems in place, you know, tools in place, and people around me that are helping me get there. So it’s taken me a while to get here. I actually served as a chief of staff for a CEO for quite a while, so I got to kind of see the inside of keeping things on the rails. We were running the board of directors, and we were in this quarterly rhythm, so that was really helpful in forming, you know, kind of that in me, I think.

You mentioned systems, tools. Is there one thing that you do, whether it’s a system, tool, or a structure, a meeting, but something that happens on a regular basis that you feel really is the glue that holds you and your team together to ensure that goals are being achieved, that performance is happening at the level that you want?

Yeah, every single day I wake up, and I go to my whiteboard. I love a whiteboard. So I go to my whiteboard, and I get everything out of my head, and I go to my Asana tool. I just- we use Asana as a team. It could be whatever you use as a team, but I go to that tool, and we all use that tool. We set clear deadlines, we communicate in it, we know where everything’s at. So that way, you know, we know if we’re meeting deadlines, if we’re missing deadlines. We can just see that on the board. So that’s really helpful.

Yeah. Okay, so your process is you wake up every day, you start with a fresh, clean whiteboard, anything that’s on your mind, you get it down. Then from there, it goes into Asana, the appropriate people are tagged, and that’s how you keep things really on track, is that the daily habit?

Yeah, that’s my, that’s my…

And how about getting the most out of your team and ensuring that they’re taking the level of action that you want or the progress is being made in a satisfactory way? Is there anything that you’ve done or you actively do to support your team or to try and get as much as you can from your team so that they can perform at the level that you want?

I love communicating. It might be text, it’s probably in Teams, not so much WhatsApp. We try to keep each other informed. We’re going back and forth if there are questions. We do a weekly team meeting. Like, we are just- hey, I work in communications. I believe it’s constant communication.

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[22:45] – Transitioning to Retainer Models for Stability

We talked about pricing just for a moment earlier, but I’d love to have you share a little bit about your evolution with pricing or how have things changed? Have they changed? Just, you know, as you’ve kind of gone through this business over the last many years, how are things different today from maybe how they were a year ago, two years ago, three years ago?

Yeah, it’s been a process, I would say, because in the PR world, you’re generally doing by the hour, or you have a retainer, or you’re doing per project. And yeah, I’m one of those people that had different price points, different customers. It just got really complex. So the time I was spending or my team members were spending on invoicing and pulling all those hours, all that stuff, I’ve started to move to retainer, a retainer model. We’ll do per project if it’s a, you know, ‘Hey, we have an IPO coming, this is what we need to do.’ Okay, we’ll work on per project. But trying to get away from the hourly has been- that’s too many models, too many models.

So a lot of, I remember having this conversation with you around some of these shifts, and it’s a very common situation that people find themselves in, right, using the older model, very well accepted and kind of acknowledged as the status quo in terms of hourly fees. But now you’ve shifted that into retainers, right? So there’s a lot more structure, it’s streamlined. Did you face any pushback or do you have any challenges? And I’m asking for everyone who’s tuning in right now who might be in a similar place, thinking, ‘Well, yeah, but my industry just is so used to using hourly fees, and this is the way that everybody does it.’ What advice would you offer them based on what you’ve experienced?

There will be pushback, especially if you’re trying to convert an existing client. So I came in with a really clear ask to say, ‘Okay, if it’s someone that we’ve been working with for a while, I can pull the data and say, ‘Here are about how many hours we spent with you last year. Here are the projects that we worked on. Okay, let’s map out what it’s going to look like in the coming year,’ and letting them know- listen, as a former corporate budget holder, you’re like, ‘Oh, I don’t know what my budget’s going to be. That’s very difficult. I don’t know if I’m going to be able to fund this project in the back half of the year because they sweep budgets.’ So being able to say, ‘Oh, okay, now I’m just going to sign off and approve this. I don’t have to go through all of the line items on the invoices.’ Removing that complexity for them has been the conversation that we’ve had that’s been a positive one.

Yeah, it’s a really great way of positioning, right? So you’re not doing this as, ‘Here’s just our policy, we’re making a change.’ You’re actually finding a way to make this advantageous for them to be excited and see the benefit of moving to that model, which obviously works much better for you as well. So that’s a great one.

[26:03] – Event-Based Networking That Converts Clients

What are you doing today to land new clients? What is the source of new business? Can you break down, is there one main way or a few main, if you were to say, like, ‘Here’s my top three ways of how we’re generating and growing the pipeline or bringing in new clients’? What does that look like for you?

Yeah. When I started, it was largely word of mouth. And we do a couple of really important conferences every year. Again, our industry is pretty small, so we go to London and do a conference. We do a couple over here in the United States. And I like to get, there are a couple of things, I like to get face-to-face with people. And I like to talk, I like to have a good cocktail. So we also do a pub event that’s connected to the London show, open house. Anybody can come in and see friends, and that always works really well.

Let’s just break that down for a moment because I love this approach, and I’ve seen it work very well with some clients over the years. So is this you find an event that your ideal clients are going to be at, so call this London event for your industry, and you’re going to attend that event, but you’re also going to send invitations to ideal clients that you believe are going to be there to say, ‘Hey, we’re hosting, in this case, a pub event. Come connect.’ Like, can you just add a few more details to what that looks like?

Yeah, I do it the night before the event kicks off. So everybody’s coming into town. I invite some friends, I tell them to invite friends because it’s just, I get a pub. It might cost me $500, it might cost me a thousand dollars. It’s a really small investment, and I know that people are having dinners around that time, so I open it up at 5:00, and I stay until close. And we just park there, and people come in and out, and they see each other, and it just creates this atmosphere of, you know, we’re friendly, and we know each other, and it’s just a really great way to connect.

And so to make an important distinction about this, I think, you’re not ‘selling’ at the pub. You’re connecting, right? You’re creating bonds with people, strengthening, cultivating relationships. And I know that a lot of people think, ‘Well, yeah, but it costs money to do that.’ You know, it’s like, but really, think about how much money and time you spend on all kinds of things that you’re just literally throwing spaghetti at the wall hoping that it sticks. And when you understand the value of one client, and in your case, Julie, that could be tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, spending a thousand, two thousand, three thousand dollars on something like this that really brings- and I know one of our other clients, also inner circle who did this with some people in Chicago, had a very hard time reaching these senior executive decision-makers. But when they were invited to this dinner that she was hosting, a bunch of them came, right? And so how powerful is that? Think about all the time, the effort that you go through trying to get meetings, get face time with your true dream ideal clients. Well, this is a really great way to do that. That’s awesome. Is there anything else that you do at these events that you find is really helpful? You just walk the floors, or do you set meetings, or what do you do?

I walk the floors, I set some meetings. I usually set coffee, lunch, dinner, cocktails. I hang out. I know where the folks are at after everything’s done. So I’m hanging out, having a drink, talking with folks, walking the floor for sure. And, just spending time before the event happens. You know, usually these events tell you who’s coming, so I’m texting, I’m emailing, ‘Hey, I’m going to be there, let’s try to meet up.’ That sort of stuff, really. And I do make sure that I do my LinkedIn at the event. So some of my biggest posts are, ‘Okay, it’s the opening day of the event, it’s the opening keynote. Let’s do a couple of LinkedIns with quotes of what they’ve said, some information.’ And that’s really helpful.

So if you’re not, quote-unquote, ‘selling’ when you’re meeting people at these events, how are they turning into clients? Are you reaching out to them afterwards? Are they reaching out to you? Just kind of walk me through maybe an example or what typically happens.

After an event like that, I will take time, especially on the plane ride home, and put my notes together to say, ‘Okay, who do I need to contact?’ Send emails to, follow-up texts, and just always reminding them, ‘Hey, if you need any help or if you know anyone that needs any help, we’d be happy to help.’ There have been times when we’ve had a prospective client that, hey, I knew they had a good story, so I put them in touch with a member of the media. I’m not charging them for that. That’s just providing value. It didn’t really take me that long to do it. But then they’ve come on to be a client, and it may have been five touches later. But I don’t view it as selling. I view it as – and that had to be a mindset switch for me because I am not a salesperson at heart. But boy, I like to have a good conversation. I like to build a relationship. That’s really all it is. I had to tell myself that’s all it is. It’s not me going and going, ‘Here’s my brochure. Do you need help?’ Like, that’s, I’m sweating. That made me sweat.

[32:01] – Leveraging AI to Strengthen Competitive Advantage

What’s your view, and how are you thinking about AI in your industry? So if we were to just break this down for a moment, is AI a concern for you and for your business?

We view it as exciting. And if you think about communications, when, okay, this is going to totally date me, that’s fine. I’m in my 50s, whatever. When I started, we were sending press releases via fax. Wow. And we saw the advent of moving from that to email to now we’re doing social media, and now we’re moving to AI. So we view it as, we better be the experts, we better understand AI because if you’re, you know, if you look at a lot of content is being generated by AI. We do use AI very safely, very securely within our business. And we actually go out and teach it. We’ve taught it to some of the world’s largest companies. We’ve gone in to say, ‘Okay, comms departments, here’s how you can use this. Here’s ways that you can make things more efficient, easier on your budget.’ We feel like we should be the thought leaders there in our space because otherwise, we may be obsolete.

Yeah. When you think about some of the larger, you know, some of them are even public, PR communications firms, that the services they provide may at first glance appear similar to some of the services that you provide.

[33:54] – Why Niche Specialists Beat Large PR Firms

What do you feel truly sets you apart? Or what do you do to create differentiation, distinction, and advantage for you over some of these larger, maybe more established organizations?

Yeah, I’ll go back to the niche part of this. So we have been brought in, in instances where someone from outside the industry or a larger firm has been brought in, and they fail because the world that we’re living in, within, especially the pet and the livestock world, it gets very, very specific around what kind of images you can show, what is the language you can use. Not even talking about the regulatory piece around medicine, but really just understanding how do you talk to your consumer base. And so that’s where we believe we hold a real advantage.

Love it. Julie, I mean, there’s so much more that we could talk on here, but I appreciate you coming on, and I want to make sure that people can learn more about you, about Lawless Comms. Where’s the best place for them to go to learn more and to connect?

Yeah, if they’d like to connect, go to LawlessComms.com, and two M’s, Lawless C-O-M-M-S.com. So LawlessComms.com, and we would love to chat with anybody who has questions.

All right, well, we will link that up in the show notes. Julie, always great speaking with you, and thank you again so much for coming on.

Yeah, this was fun. I appreciate it.

Important Links:

Julie Lawless
Lawless Comms
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