Recession-Proofing Your Consulting Business

While some consultants brace for economic headwinds, a select few see downturns as their greatest opportunity for explosive growth. But clinging to conventional growth strategies simply won’t cut it. You need a completely different playbook for creating capturing value in today’s market. Dr. Nate Regier not only recognized this, he built a playbook, transforming from a small startup to a global enterprise solution with his compassionate accountability framework. 

And today, in this episode, he reveals the counterintuitive strategy that helped him secure major enterprise clients during the 2008 recession, how to flip the script and shift your revenue from 65% service revenue to 65% scalable product revenue, and the proven framework for measuring and communicating ROI that’s so compelling, it silences even the most skeptical CFOs. And if you know CFOs, you know what I’m talking about. 

All right, everyone, enjoy. 

Welcome to the Consulting Success podcast. I’m your host Michael Zipursky, and in this podcast, we’re going to dive deep into the world of elite consultants where you’re going to learn the strategies, tactics and mindset to grow a highly profitable and successful consulting business.

Before we dive into today’s episode. Are you ready to grow and take your consulting business to the next level? Many of the clients that we work with started as podcast listeners just like you, and a consistent theme they have shared with us is that they wished they had reached out sooner about our Clarity Coaching Program rather than waiting for that perfect time. If you’re interested in learning more about how we help consultants just like you, we’re offering a free, no pressure growth session call. On this call, we’re going to dive deep into your goals, challenges and situation and outline a plan that is tailor made just for you. We will also help you identify where you may be making costly and time consuming mistakes to ensure you’re benefiting from the proven methods and strategies to grow your consulting business. 

So don’t wait years to find clarity. If you’re committed and serious about reaching a new level of success in your consulting business, go ahead and schedule your free growth session. Get in touch today. Just visit Consulting Success – Grow to book your free call today.

Dr. Nate Regier, PhD, is CEO of Next Element, a leadership development firm, whose focus is building thriving workplace cultures. A former psychologist and top speaker, he’s known for his expertise in compassionate accountability, conflict resolution, and social-emotional intelligence. He’s authored four books, hosts The Compassionate Accountability® Podcast, and is a master trainer in the Process Communication Model® and Compassionate Accountability. 

Connect with Dr. Nate Regier

Discover more about Next Element

Hi, Nate. Welcome.

Thanks, Michael. Great to be with you and your audience.

Yeah, looking forward to our conversation. There’s a lot of stuff I want to get into. I mean, you have certification programs, you sell to enterprise, you’re an author of multiple books, but let’s go back in time before you started your company, Next Element. What were you doing? How did you get into the world of consulting?

  

Man, you know, sometimes I think I took a long detour. I’ve always been an entrepreneur at heart. I had all kinds of little entrepreneurial schemes growing up. In fact, I was a business major in college and I got nervous when I bought my Econ 3 textbook. And it was like this thick and it had a floppy disk attached to it. “I can’t do this.” So I changed my major to psychology and actually went on and got a doctorate in psychology and practiced for 11 years. But during that time, I was lucky to be part of a multi-specialty behavioral health system that had a lot of cool, different divisions and departments. Two of them particularly were organizational consulting and a ropes course adventure course kind of doing, you know, that outdoor adventure, working with team building and stuff. And I loved doing that. And so I kind of felt like working with groups, working with teams in a more facilitative, consultative role was really my thing. And then one of the last things I did as a psychologist was I helped start an integrated behavioral medicine clinic at a hospital. And then I was full on consultation liaison work all day. And again, just loved it. So that kind of planted the seeds for me to go do this for a profession.

Well, before we get into, you know, how you built up the business, which is something I really want to dive into, and I know everyone joining us is interested in hearing more about it, you’re known for kind of the term or the concept of “compassionate accountability”. I think everyone recognizes, or hopefully they recognize the value, the importance of accountability and how so often we can get a lot more done, I don’t mean more just in terms of volume, but, you know, we can accomplish things that oftentimes we may not accomplish without that sense of accountability. But compassionate accountability, what does that actually mean?

03:12 – What Is Compassionate Accountability?  

Yeah, it’s the seeds again for that have been planted from very early on. My parents were missionaries in Africa and in the ‘70s and ‘80s, and during that time in Southern Africa, things were not good. Apartheid in South Africa, Nelson Mandela was in prison. So a lot of strife, a lot of injustice, a lot of, I would say, lack of accountability and lack of compassion. And yet my parents were kind of trying to bring compassion. And so that was something I wrestled with a lot about: How do you reconcile this idea of being good to other humans and building strong relationships and having empathy? And at the same time, in a business, our behavior matters. I mean, in communities, our behavior matters. It affects each other. So accountability for behavior not only is critical for society to function, but we have to have accountability to goals if we’re going to achieve anything as a business. So eventually we just started realizing these two things have to come together. But everyone acts like they’re opposites. And so we started asking ourselves, what if compassion and accountability actually weren’t opposites? What if they actually needed each other in order to fully function? And it’s kind of like a catalyst – when you put the two together, the sum is way or the product is way more than the sum of the parts.

I love it. I’ll share something with you that I haven’t talked a ton about, maybe outside of our internal team and some of our clients. But we have a term that internally we refer to as “tough love”. And it’s, you know, similar in the sense that these two words, you don’t often think that they go together very well. But in the work that we do with our clients, that’s really what we try and apply. You know, we’re direct. So as an example, if we see that a client is maybe pulling themselves back or they have limiting beliefs or they’re not following through when they know that they should, as an example, we need to call them out on that. And we do it not from a place of judgment and not from a place of saying, you know, you’re wrong or bad. But we’re not going to just let them off the hook and say like, “Oh, okay. You know, hopefully you’ll get around to it later on.” That’s the tough part. But the love part is we’re doing that because we care, because we truly want them to, you know, achieve greater potential and what they want. So when I heard about, you know, your concept of compassion accountability, it just really resonated because I think we have aligned beliefs around that.

Yeah. You know, I’ve met a lot of people over the last few years as I’ve been talking about this concept more that have kind of their own way of saying it. Tough love. One of the people that was on my podcast, he had a principle he called “be tender hearted with people and tough minded on standards”. And so, you know, people have their ways of saying these two have to be reconciled. And I love hearing the different ways people go about it.

You kind of alluded to something that I wanted to ask you, but I’ll just dig into a little bit here. From looking at your website and the research that we did, it seems that you work a lot with, your company works a lot with nonprofits and also in the healthcare sector. You mentioned that that’s kind of where you got a bit of your start, was related to healthcare. Can you just describe who are your ideal clients today and are those two the main kinds of markets that you target or are there others?

06:24 – Selling to Enterprise Clients  

Yeah. Thank you. Healthcare is where we got our start, partly because we worked in healthcare, and businesses, small businesses often start with word of mouth and it’s very regional for us. And so we got a lot of experience there. Then we branched out into manufacturing. Now we’re really going after larger clients, usually a thousand employees or more, that really want enterprise level solutions. And partly that’s because we think that some of our solutions have the capability of making the biggest difference in larger companies that have a bigger reach. And the concepts are resonating with companies that really have dedicated energy towards culture, towards people, towards those kinds of emphases.

You talk a little bit about what’s gone through your mind or when you talk with, you know, others in your world on your team and so forth, to make that leap, that decision to go from playing, let’s say, you know, focus on the smaller to mid-sized companies, to now all of a sudden going much higher to the enterprise level. Oftentimes, there’s the kind of thought process that consultants have around, “No, maybe just we should stay where we are. I don’t know if the “big guys” need what we have to offer. They’ll just go to larger, more established firms.” What did you talk through? Like, how did you arrive at the decision that, No, let’s actually go after enterprise”?

07:43 – Scaling Through Clear Messaging  

Actually, it was very strategic and it was part of the growth pains of our company. Our mission has always been to bring compassion accountability to every workplace in the world. And so as the message began to resonate more and more, we thought bigger, we thought bigger. But to really go after the bigger companies, we had to first get really crystal clear about our message and our product and what is it that we’re bringing to the world, what’s our unique contribution. And the books that I’ve written are a way of articulating that very clearly in digestible ways. And it gives credibility as well, but it forces us to articulate our big idea and the way in which we can make a difference. My podcast has been a big thing for me, also, is interviewing and getting to know leaders of large companies that are trying to do this kind of stuff. What are they going through? What are they experiencing? What are the pitfalls? Where are they struggling? And so a lot of learning there and then also being able to scale. And obviously, we can’t directly serve a company with 20,000 employees, so how do we scale our big idea in a way that can really work in a large company?

Was there anything as you kind of went through that thought process and making the decision to go after enterprise, that was a real sticking point? Was there fear around any specific area that, you know, maybe was harder to overcome than other parts?

Well, we call them band aids in our business. To have to rip off band aids on our assumptions, the ways we think about ourselves, some of our limiting beliefs. We actually hired a consultant to help us with a go to market strategy and when they really dug deep into our company, said, “You are sitting on some incredible ideas, some incredible assessments, these things you’ve developed, but they’re not seeing the light of day. You really need to believe in yourself, really. Your ideas are worth more than you think they are, and there are some things you can do to get them out there.” And so I think one of the things we had to overcome is our own beliefs about what we were worth and what the difference these ideas could make. And that maybe we don’t have the same pedigree or maybe we haven’t worked in all the same, you know, blue chip companies, but it doesn’t mean that we can’t have real conversations with people at a high level and be able to offer value.

All right. Well, we’re going to get more into that, but I want to again, take us back a little bit. You mentioned, which is true for most consulting businesses, you know, starting from word of mouth, your own network. Take me back to a kind of day 1, week 1, month 1, kind of time range. How did you launch the business initially? You know, did you send a bunch of emails to your network? Like what did you actually do to get your first client?

10:20 – Launching During the 2008 Recession  

Oh, man. It is a bit of a crazy story actually. So, four people from the same organization that I worked at, we found ourselves crossing paths more and more and more on the ropes course, adventure course in the consulting work. And we just loved each other’s philosophies and we aligned around the kind of difference we wanted to make and our approach. And eventually we thought, “You know, why don’t we go do this? You know, let’s start a company.” And so we actually did form the company officially. Then we resigned from our jobs and gave a 90-day notice which was, I look back now and say that was really dumb, but we were fired.

Well, sorry, why was it dumb? What would you have done differently?

Well, I’ll tell you in a little bit why it was dumb. So we gave a 90-day notice. This is a non-profit faith-based organization we’re working for, we mean no harm, we want to go do something else. But we’re willing to work on transitions, we’re willing to work on, you know, whatever it takes to do that. And they’re like, “Yeah, great, you know, it sucks, but hey.” And then on the same Friday, without notice, they fired all four of us. Just like that. We were literally out on the street. And the next day we were in my basement with basically trying to recreate client lists because we didn’t take anything with us. We could have, but we didn’t. And just starting to call clients. But the funny thing was, the day before they fired us, we were getting ready to go do a big huge gig with a big aircraft manufacturer. And they tried to take back that gig, but the aircraft manufacturer said, “No, you’re going to let these people come and do it.” And so their legal department actually wrestled us free and we went and delivered it on Monday and it paid the bills for the next three months of our company. 

Crazy, crazy thing. But I think it shows that we had really solid relationships, they trusted us, we didn’t do anything behind anybody’s backs, and they respected that, and they said, “This is the kind of people we want to work with.” So that’s how we started.

All right. So then let’s fast forward from that point. So that’s the kind of client one pays the bills for three months. You’re back in, you know, a relatively good position. What did you do next? You know, how did you get clients 2, 3, 4, 5?

12:28 – Landing Clients Without a Network  

So this was 2008, August, September, October. That’s the recession. So everybody withdrawing training budgets, consulting budgets, we figured the only thing we can do is we have to deliver results. So we have to do really good work, deliver results under promise, over deliver, and then rely on word of mouth and ask our clients who they would refer us to. So we did that, and within the next year, we had three or four more big clients, and we were kind of positioning ourselves as, “Look, things are in a downturn right now. This is the perfect time to invest in your people, because when it turns back around, you’re going to need resources, you’re going to want these people around, and you’re going to want to have trust that you didn’t erode during this time.” And so that’s kind of where we fit in.

I mean, it’s really interesting because speaking of clients in Europe as an example, and many people will tell you that, you know, certain countries in Europe today are already in recession. There’s more talk about, you know, whether the US is in a recession or is there one coming around the corner? And I’m not a fortune teller. I don’t know what’s going to happen, but it does feel like right now there’s a lot of uncertainty in the marketplace. I’ve heard from many organizations that they’re a little more hesitant to kind of, you know, release the purse strings and more thoughtful about making investments into projects and bringing on consultants. So your message, it sounds like, was targeting people to say, “Hey, like, I recognize that right now you might be pulling back your training budget, but if you don’t do this, right, then you’re the same as everybody else. You’re not going to have any kind of advantage. But if you truly want to be more proactive, like, this could be an advantage for you.” I’m wondering, based on that experience, Nate, as well as what you’ve seen to this point in your business many years later, talking to buyers in a time of uncertainty, potentially in a recession, what would be your message to them now? How would you help somebody to see that there’s an opportunity to make an investment rather than hold off?

14:17 – Selling in Uncertain Times  

One of the things we try to do is we look ahead to once you get through this or when things start to change, or whenever the next inflection point comes, what kind of a leader are you going to need at that point? What kind of people are you going to need to come online quickly at that point? So if we can help them anticipate what they’re going to need, even if they’re laying people off, they still have to invest in the people that are there to be able to handle what’s coming. So our name is Next Element. We have always been focused on how are you going to be able to create the right element for what’s next for you. And so that’s how we position it is we’ll get you ready for what’s going to be needed next.

Love it. I want to encourage everybody who’s joining us right now to think about how that applies to you. You’re likely not in the same exact area that Nate and his firm are in in terms of the services and products that you provide, but there’s likely something inside of what Nate just shared that you can apply to your own business. Let’s fast forward then to today from a marketing perspective. You talked about the podcast. You’re obviously still getting, I would imagine referrals in terms of another way, you know, another source or channel of lead generation and conversations. But outside of the podcast and referrals, just from doing great work, is there anything else that you’re doing right now kind of on the marketing and lead generation side to build your pipeline?

15:33 – Modern B2B Marketing Strategy  

Yeah. Over the last three years, we’ve made a concerted effort and realized that those are our biggest missing pieces in our company as we grow, is having really high quality, strategic, dedicated marketing and dedicated sales to generate leads and then convert them. And so the first thing we did was a brand review and consolidation to get crystal clear about what is our messaging, what is our brand, how are we going to position ourselves. And when I published my book, Compassion Accountability, a little over a year ago, coming up to that, we really felt coming out of COVID that this was going to be our brand. This was going to be kind of an evergreen message that encapsulated our message. So we built our brand around that, then hired dedicated marketing and we really dedicated resources to marketing that was highly qualified. And we took the long game realizing there’s not going to be any of these quick wins and these magic bullets, not going to happen. And now recently we’ve hired dedicated sales, enterprise sales. And so we have really good people in the right spot here and we’re feeling really positive about that so far.

And when you say dedicated marketing people, I’m sure everyone joining us kind of wanted to ask you, “Hey. Nate, like, you know, what are you doing specifically?” So are they coordinating webinars, sending emails? What is the, outside of the podcast and referrals, what is the kind of the marketing activity or channel or tactic that is working best for you today?

Our marketing activity now is interfacing with our web developers around just SEO, web design to drive traffic there, content marketing, particular targeted emails around different products and initiatives. And then we also have dedicated social media digital marketing. And our head of marketing works with digital marketing and really coordinated around our messaging and branding there. And then also, I do a lot of presentations, we go to trade shows, we go to events. So getting a really strong cohesive strategy for how, when we have an opportunity to be with people that are potential decision makers to share our message, how do we prepare for that, how do we show up, how do we follow up after that to really take advantage of that opportunity. And we’re really getting, I think, a cohesive repeatable strategy there that works.

And we tell you what marketing people, are these now full time people that you’ve brought on or are they a contract or-?

Yeah, we have full time. We have a full time dedicated marketing. Our digital media is part time and then our sales is part time.

Got you. How many people total in the company right now are full time compared to contract?

18:00 – Building a Scalable Consulting Team  

We have five owners that are all full time and then we have, let’s see, two other people that are working part time for us.

Got you. And you just said, you mentioned five owners. So does that mean these are equity owners or what’s the actual structure of the business?

Yeah, all equity owners full time. And we have different roles where we’ve actually, I don’t know how many of your listeners are familiar with EOS and Traction, Entrepreneurial Operating System Traction. So we implemented that, we started implementing it about five, six months ago. And that’s really helping us redefine our roles and get really clear about strategy. And it’s already starting to pay off.

Good, that’s great. I want to talk about sales. You mentioned that you’ve now kind of started to bring on more dedicated sales. This is one area that I think a lot of consulting business founders struggle with, that sales are really reliant on them. How have you approached that? And I guess let’s just maybe go through a few specific questions rather than me throwing five questions at you at once, Nate. But when did you know that it was time for you to start to shift reliance away from you personally doing all the sales?

19:02 – Replacing Founder-Led Sales  

I knew it probably five years ago before I was ready to stop doing it. One of our goals is to shift our revenue mix. Currently it is about 65% direct services from the work that we do, the time we put in, the effort we put in. 35% is passive revenue from our different IP. We want to shift that around completely. So a pretty big shift. And at that moment when we made that decision, that goal, I knew there’s no way I can do this because I would have to be selling things that I don’t know how to sell because I’m good at selling more of the same thing and I’m good at doing it. You know, people like your stuff, they want more of it. And so we really have to break into new markets in a new way, connect with different kinds of people. I just knew I was not qualified and I didn’t want to spend the time doing it. I had better ways to use my time as kind of a visionary and the founder of the CEO of the company.

Right. And, and how did you– And you know, probably how still do you think about compensation as it relates to sales? You’re bringing somebody on. You know, how quickly did you think this person or people would need to start producing sales for you in order for this to be a viable path?

Yeah, that’s a great question. And we’ve looked at hiring sales for probably two or three years. And we’re part of- We’re part of an association that really supports each other. So we’re sharing ideas, entrepreneurs, we’re really trying. And we looked at a couple different models. We never found something that felt right for us. And finally we found someone that is amazing because very, very experienced, but he actually has a guarantee. And it’s insane. Not a 100% guarantee, but there is a guarantee. And he was able to give us very specific goals, very specific timelines and what to expect at this time, at this time, you know, after he started. And it’s been very transparent. We have complete visibility into his activities and his efforts. So it’s a model we feel confident about because the risk was moderated a little bit. And we felt like with his experience, I think, ask me in six months, but right now I feel pretty confident.

Okay. So it’s too early to tell. The results aren’t there yet. But you feel like the progress is maybe starting to show, but no–

Oh, yeah, the progress is showing. And, you know, we sometimes are on calls together. We’re on things together, and we’re just learning constantly from him, which reinforces why we needed a professional salesperson. What we thought we knew what sales was and how to do it-

Got you. Okay, so you’ve kind of outsourced sales a little bit right now, so it’s not yet internal. So we’ll check back in six months and see how that’s coming along.

Well, if he does well, we’ll just keep increasing his time. And as long as he’s producing, he would eventually be-

There you go. Okay. We just talked a little bit about your revenue mix. I think 65% is coming from services, so that’s consulting, advising, working with your clients. And then you have another 30% plus that is coming from products. I’m assuming that is certifications and other kinds of IP that you have. Is that correct?

21:58 – Creating Revenue with Certification  

Yeah, it’s certifications. And then we have a global network of about 120 certified trainers, coaches, consultants that are using our methodology, using our assessments, buying materials from us. So between the purchase of their materials and some of their annual net, you know, fees for being involved, that alone with a couple of licenses, a couple other things adds up to that 35%.

Got you. Why did you decide to go that path? I mean, some people would just say, “We’re providing services. Let’s just continue to build that. We’ll increase our fees, you know, we’ll take on larger clients, and that will be the whole business.” Certification is a different beast. It’s a whole different model. Requires all different kinds of communications and processes and systems. What drew you to that?

Yeah, sometimes I think we should do one or the other, but not try to do both. When we started our company, three of the four founding owners, we were certified in a different model. And we trained that model. That was the staple for all of our work. And so we were on the other side of that kind of a relationship. And I was really involved, and I still am at a global level in that organization. I’m a certified master trainer, and I do a lot of certifications. So I understood the business model and I thought, “Huh, I would like to be on the other side of this relationship, which means we have to create IP.” And that coupled with our mission to scale meant that we have to transcend ourselves. That’s always been the goal, is to transcend ourselves so that we can scale but also increase revenue exponentially and then eventually be able to sell. I’m eight years or so from retirement and I’m going to be a grandpa next February. I love working. I love working. But you know, there is an end, there’s a transition. And so we’re very mindful about getting ready for that.

That’s really interesting. For somebody who might be kind of nodding their head as they’re listening and thinking, “Yeah, maybe I should be looking to certification. I like the idea of creating greater value. I like the idea of being able to impact more people.” What would you say to them? Is there something they should be thinking about initially when it comes to certification?

Well, it is a beast. It’s a whole other beast. Because- first thing I would do is talk to others that are doing it and hear their experience. The whole idea, the whole notion of replicating an idea so that someone else can take it, it’s an ego thing. Letting go of our own idea, no one’s ever going to do it as well as we do. And at the same time there is a real fidelity component. So the first thing I would think about is how would you teach someone else to do it in a consistent, replicable way where you could get what I call minimum effective dose, where you could pretty much put it in anybody’s hands with a little bit of training and they could get a minimum impact consistently, predictably, that you could live with. That’s a process that’s really, really critical. Separate from everything from the business model, how you want to charge, what you want to do, how you want to manage people, how you want to deliver materials, is really think about how would you replicate your idea and put it in someone else’s hands and trust them with it.

Is there anything as it relates to certification that you see people make a big mistake with? Or it’s like, “Hey, beware of this.” Anything that stands out?

I think people err on two ends of the spectrum. Either they’re overly rigid and over controlling and they don’t let people have any kind of personal freedom in terms of, “Look, this is me. I’m a human being here. I need to be able to come alive with this material.” Or they’re overly, what’s the opposite of restrictive? Overly allowing. And so then the IP falls apart, and there’s no recognizable thread that has a brand that has an IP. You know, we have a global brand. We have trademarks and copyrights all over the world, and we’re trying to protect something that has some integrity, has some consistency, and is recognizable no matter where you get it.

Makes sense. How do you communicate kind of value and ROI to your clients? How do you make the business case? I mean, you mentioned earlier about, I guess it’s partly a business case in terms of what kind of leader do you want to have right next? But if somebody, you’re dealing with a buyer who’s really thinking, “Well, does this make sense from a financial perspective to make this investment?” How do you approach that and describe that with buyers in your marketplace?

26:23 – Proving ROI with Real Data  

Well, I’m a behavioral psychologist by training and a research scientist. So the very first thing we did when we started Next Element is we asked ourselves that question. What would be a suite of metrics that we could start collecting every time we do any work? Everyone we certify collects the same metrics. We make it super accessible, super consistent. And then those metrics start to become our legacy of ROI. And we did that. So we now have 15 years of data, over 20,000 data points, measuring a variety of different outcomes that are incredibly compelling. And we can look at them by trainer, we can look at them by region. So when we go into a company, we say, this is the kind of results we’re getting in these areas. If this is important to you, we can do that. Then the other conversation we have is we always start with the end in mind. We’re not here to do events. We’re not here to complete a training. We’re not here to put in the hours. We’re here to achieve a result, which is changes in behaviors that make a difference in your biggest problems. So let’s start there. What’s your problem? What behaviors need to change? And then we’re going to measure our success against that.

Can you offer a few of those metrics that you find do resonate most often with people?

Yeah. One of them is we measure changes in efficacy, which is a person’s confidence to be able to execute new behaviors. And so we’ve determined what are some of the core competencies that are just generally necessary for great leadership. We measure changes in efficacy there. We actually developed and validated our own instrument to do that, and we measured in different areas of a person’s life because you want to be impacting different areas depending on the focus. We also measure impact in work relationships, personal relationships, teamwork. There’s another one, I think culture. And so we measure changes in that over time based on the experience of the participants, along with other things, like how our assessments stack up to other assessments they’ve used or general recommendations, willingness to refer, that kind of thing.

All right. So, Nate, I want to talk about conflict, because that’s an area that you spend quite a bit of time with or on working with clients. And you’ve said that conflict is energy. A lot of people do not think about conflict as energy. They think of it as something they should avoid at all costs. It’s negative. Stay away from it. So first, can you just explain what you mean when you say conflict is energy?

28:46 – Turning Conflict into Competitive Advantage  

Yeah.. Well, electricity is energy, and so people often want to stay away from that, especially when there’s bare wires. But we also couldn’t live without it because, with proper management of the electricity, we can run our homes. So the way I see it, diversity of any kind is a part of the grand design of the universe. However, because of diversity, there inevitably is going to be conflict. That is the most predictable, natural outcome of diversity. So conflict, then, is just the gap between what we want and what we’re experiencing. Two different ways of seeing things being, whatever. There’s energy in that gap. And whether you want to avoid conflict or not, you feel it in your gut. Your hair stands up on the back of your neck. Some people get exhilarated, but there’s energy there. It’s just a matter of how you spend it. And I really believe that there’s two main ways to spend conflict energy. Drama is the misuse of that energy to feel justified, to wreak havoc, whatever. And then compassion or compassionate accountability is the other way to use conflict energy. And so with that, we say that conflict is the bridge between compassion and accountability. You can’t get there without conflict, the right kind of conflict. And so we do a lot of work around how do we walk into conflict and steward that energy to create something amazing.

Let me offer an example. This is something that I’ve heard from multiple clients over the years. So you have the consultant, then you have the CEO or kind of the sponsoring executive, the one who’s actually writing the checks. Now below them is somebody else that could be a director or a manager that the CEO or the leaders put the manager/director kind of in charge of communication with the consultant. And inevitably something will happen. And that director/manager, is not the most fun to work with. In fact, right there, they’re pushing back. They make the work that the consultant wants to bring in really hard to do. And the consultant starts to feel like there’s a disconnect between what the actual CEO or leader brought them in for and what they’re trying to do. So there’s conflict there. Knowing what you know, how would you navigate that situation? What steps, you know, would you take?

31:06 – Handling Stakeholder Tension

There’s the tactical steps and there’s the ‘what’, and then there’s the ‘how’. The what is we have to talk about the dynamic and the dilemma and what’s going on. The how, two things I would bring into play. I would really want to understand what is that manager– The manager, it’s kind of the sticking point here that’s getting in the way. Maybe. What aren’t they getting that they’re needing? Is there something about this that is threatening them? How can I support them in being an ally? Because com-passion means “with suffer”. How do we make this about “We’re in this together”? And then also I would use one of our conflict strategies to talk to that person about how I’m feeling, what I’m experiencing, get curious with them about what are they going through, what’s going on. And then I would probably end with, “Here’s what’s at stake. Here’s why this matters so much.” And then really, you know, let that be the starter of the conversation. Now, it might depend on how that goes. You know, there’s a time where I might have to pick a different route or get a little bit more hard, but that’s where I would start.

Yeah, no, I think that’s great in terms of how you frame that and explored it. And being very clear, very transparent about what you’re feeling, what you’re seeing, and then allowing them space to open up and, you know, become comfortable so they don’t view you as a threat, but rather as somebody that, you know, you’re working together to accomplish the same goal or something that you can aim towards together.

32:46 – How to Contact Nate

So, Nate, I know we’re coming up on time here. I want to make sure that people can learn more about you, your company, the work that you do, your books. Where’s the best place for them to go and learn more?

I’m going to give you just one URL which is next-element.com. And we have worked really hard to make that homepage a one stop shop where it all should make sense and there should be a story there. So I’m not even giving you anything else or else we haven’t done our work.

There we go. We’ll make sure to link that up in the show notes as well. Nate, thank you so much for coming on here today. I know that we’ve just kind of, you know, started to scratch a little bit at the surface. There’s so much more to cover in terms of your books, the models that you’ve all developed. But I think that your website will do a good job in leading people to a resource where they can learn a lot more. But thanks again for coming on.

You are so welcome and thanks for your great questions. Really fun conversation.

Important Links:

Dr. Nate Regier

Next Element

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