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$100M Business Growth Strategies For Consultants With Cameron Herold: Podcast #154

Business growth is a common goal for the majority of business owners. Cameron Herold, the Founder of COO Alliance, joins Michael Zipursky on today’s episode to share business growth strategies that he has been personally using. Sharing the story of how he built up 1-800-GOT-JUNK? and ultimately moved on to start on his own, Cameron highlights some of these important strategies such as culture, sticking to your core values, increasing your prices to a premium, and outsourcing anything else other than genius. Want to grow your business exponentially? Tune in to this episode to learn more!

Listen to the podcast here:

$100M Business Growth Strategies For Consultants With Cameron Herold

I’m here with Cameron Herold. Cameron, welcome.

Thanks for having me, Michael.

Cameron, you’re a top-rated international speaker, author of multiple books. You’re the Founder of the COO Alliance by age 21. Correct me if I’m wrong on this, but I believe this is accurate that you had fourteen employees by age of 21. By 35, you helped build two $100 million companies and you were a key mastermind behind the 1-800-GOT-JUNK? from $2 million to $106 million in revenue in about six years. Is that correct?

That’s all true.

I want to hit on a little bit of know your time at 1-800-GOT-JUNK? and what you did there, because it’s such a monumental success story in the industry. I think there are some lessons in there even for the independent consultant or small consulting firm owner. Before we do that, take me back when you left. When decided to leave that company that was part of your life and everything to start your own business? Why did you leave? Let’s get into some challenges. What was it like to leave from that corporate world into starting your own thing?

It was brutal. I was fired by my best friends. Most people never asked the question. I’m public about it. Brian and I are still good friends to this day. We took a big couple of years to get through that transition, but I was the guy to take us from $2 million, $106 million, from fourteen employees to 3,100, from twelve cities to 330 cities and I executed that growth. I engineered that growth as the COO and I ran everything except IT and finance.

When we got to the 3,000 employees system-wide and 330 cities, 4 countries, and 30 operating companies, it was big. I was the wrong guy to take it from $100 million to the billion. Brian asked me to step down. We were sitting at the Vancouver Club having breakfast before our leadership team meeting. I completely lost it and started sobbing. He made me leave my car at the Vancouver Club and take a taxi home because he didn’t think it was safe for me to drive, which was true.

Six days later, I was doing a speaking event for him in Montreal, showcasing the company. Two weeks after, I was showcasing it to 200 CEOs in Vegas and then did a speaking 2 or 3 cities in Texas talking about the company a month later. I was still proud of the company and big on what we’ve built, but a tough transition. I took four months off and took off May, June, July, and August and completely disconnected.

I didn’t check the email. I didn’t go for business meetings with people. I didn’t go for lunch with business people. I hung out with my friends. I played golf. I played tennis. I went for hikes and I wrote and journaled every day and made the lists. I started to dig into what did I love, what was I good at, what did I suck at, what did I hate, what are all the projects I’ve led, and business areas I’d run and I mind map my world.

CSP 154 | Business Growth Strategies

 

What I came out with was I don’t like having deliverables. I don’t like doing work. I love growing people. I love leading teams. I like coaching. I love speaking. I love talking to the press, but a lot of the other stuff that I’m not good at, I don’t get energy from them. I designed a business around the things that I loved and the things I’m good at. I removed all the other stuff. As an example, I coach CEOs and COOs globally but I have no deliverables. We only meet over video. I don’t go in person.

If they want me in person, I charge a ton. Over video, I don’t show up with any prep. We talk and I work through their issues with them over the call and I’d give them the deliverables. I love doing speaking events. It becomes my top of the funnel. Every time I stand on a stage or I do a Zoom call, I get clients from it. I’ve gotten all my ideas into books and those make money for me. They create more clients and it’s become this little flywheel.

You covered a lot of one-on-one. I talk on one of the interviews there in one quick response, but also, we’ll have to break it down. Do you think that someone can get that same level of clarity before they even start a business in terms of knowing what it is that they want or do you think that someone has to go through that experience to be able to arrive at what they should focus on and not?

I think it’s when you sit down and decide to examine your life. I decided to examine things. I don’t think most people do. Most people don’t live with intention. They don’t think about their business and where they’re growing it too. They try to make whatever they have bigger, or they don’t think about their life and reverse-engineering how they’re going to bring their life back to where they are. In a lot of ways, people are busy being busy and moving things forward. They’re not necessarily growing their life or their business with intentions. I tend to work in reverse. I think about where we’re going and then I work it backward and figure out how to get there.

You mentioned that your great friend, your boss, the CEO of the company fired you. It sounds like there were all kinds of emotions for you at that time. I’m thinking about people reading who may have had a similar experience where they got fired or they got let go. They feel like what was done to them was not justified. What did you learn through that experience? What advice would you have to someone who might be feeling that resentment or anger and it’s holding them back from moving forward?

I told Brian’s assistant the night before that I was getting fired the next day and she was like, “Shut up. Go home.” I’m like, “No.” I’ve felt for months that this isn’t the right thing anymore. I don’t know what it is, but I can’t make it right. I started to identify as well that I knew that I wasn’t in my unique ability. I was struggling, it was tough and it wasn’t fun. I wasn’t even enjoying spending time with the people that I used to enjoy spending time with. I think when you allow yourself, maybe that’s journaling, maybe it’s meditation, maybe it’s running where you get into a period of flow and you can allow yourself to think. If I noticed that I probably would have left or maybe not, maybe it would have been like a marriage that I wasn’t able to leave until it blew up.

There’s another name for you. I don’t know if you created this or someone created for you. You’re referred to as a CEO Whisperer, which always makes me think of the Dog Whisperer. There’s a program of saying about that. Where did that come from? Did you create it or someone else created it? What does it mean?

It was the publisher of Forbes Magazine who saw me speak 4 or 5 times over the course of the year at these large entrepreneurial conferences and he was introducing me to a group of 700 CEOs that I was speaking to. He introduced me as the CEO Whisperer and then he wrote an article about me in the print edition of Forbes Magazine, the actual magazine itself and it appeared online as well about the vivid vision concept that I created and he called me the CEO Whisperer in there as well. I’ve now used that as part of my introductions. What he meant by that was that I was sitting behind the CEO, whispering in their ear and letting them know about the cheat sheets, the shortcuts, the ways to grow their companies, and the way to build them better. Whereas often they couldn’t afford to have me full-time, but they couldn’t afford not to have me whispering in their ear. That was where it came from.

You architected the growth for 1-800-GOT-JUNK? and it accelerated quickly. To someone who’s running a smaller company, taking from your own experience of going out once you left that company and started your own business, what stands out to you? What would be the advice you would offer someone that wants to go out and build a business, start getting more clients and generating traction more rapidly even if they have a lot of expertise, but maybe they’re not good on the marketing and business development side? What have you seen work well for you and for others based on your own experience?

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When I came into 1-800-GOT-JUNK?, it was a small company. We only had twelve employees when I got there. It’s not like this was a big business that I grew. It was a small company that I figured out how to scale. I think that’s important that we remember that. It was a small company that didn’t have a lot of systems, people or money. We had no marketing budget for the first three years that I was there. We built a PR group internally because we couldn’t afford marketing. The core strategies that we used back then to position the company to scale, the first one was that we had to charge more. When I came in, they were charging too little. They weren’t making enough money. The franchisees weren’t making enough money.

The franchisor wasn’t making the money. I’m like, “You can’t make enough money when you’re not charging enough. You need to be a premium price.” When we built College Pro Painters, we were 30% more expensive than pros. The pros can do the house way cheaper than College Pro is going to do it for, but we marketed ourselves better. At 1-800-GOT-JUNK?, I got them to raise their prices by 40% day one and we provided a better website, a better experience, better branding, and better trucks. We showed up and over-delivered, even though we were charging a premium price because we could afford to.

The second was that we leveraged the press. We understood how to get more and more free publicity about our company to share the vision of our future and share what we were working on and where we were going to get people excited. We would learn how to amplify that media by sharing that coverage with as many people as we could share it with. We built the company prior to Facebook, even launching. I left and I was the first employee to have Facebook out of 248 people at the head office. People were laughing at me as to why I was even trying to figure this thing out, but we didn’t have anywhere to amplify. We landed 5,200 stories in the media in six years.

Imagine if we could have shared it on Facebook and LinkedIn, put ad traffic on top of it and shared it on Instagram, we would have blown up. What we did grew up fast but we would have grown even faster. The third area was culture. It was how to turn our company into a little bit more than a business, and a little bit less than a religion. It was how to get into that zone of a cult. When we understood how to become a cult-like brand, that’s what amplified. People wanting to work for us, attracting more A-players, not having to pay the A-players a ton, and then getting the media to talk about how great our culture was, became another flywheel. Those are the three things that we focused on.

What goes into that? That could be a whole book. When you say building a cult-like culture within the company, what are some of the highest level or most important parts that people could start taking away from reading this and think about in terms of how to apply it to their own business?

The first one is that the employees need to be completely aligned with the vision. They need to see where the company is going and what the company looks for. I call it the Vivid Vision Concept. That 4 or 5-page written document, clearly describing what the company looks like, acts like, and feels like three years from now. Secondly, they have to be aligned with core values. The company has to make sure that the CEO knows the core values, that the employees know the core values, that you fire people who break the core values, that you live the core values day-to-day, and that you hire people who already live those core values.

Most companies don’t ever go anywhere near that level of obsession around core values. The next is in obsession around a core purpose. Making sure that you understand where you’re driving the organization. Fourth would be the big, hairy, audacious goal, the BHAG. Those are the four corners of your puzzle. The vivid vision, the core values, the core purpose, and your BHAG. The first side of the jigsaw puzzle would be all the people’s systems.

From the interviewing, recruiting, selection, training, onboarding, and leadership development of people, getting rid of the wrong people. It’s all of your strategic thinking systems, your business planning systems, your goal setting systems and it’s all of your meeting rhythms from your annual meetings all the way through to your one-on-ones and dailies and your financial systems. Culture then comes out of that. Most of the media reports about culture being the free snacks, the fruit loops in the kitchen and the we-room. That’s not culture. Those are perks.

I’d love for you to speak to them because I can imagine people reading to this going, “That sounds great but I’m a smaller company. We only have 3 or 4 employees.” How is that applicable? Is there a threshold or a number of employees were using that approach, that structure and that thought process becomes relevant and meaningful? Shouldn’t someone with less than X number of employees not even thinkable those things now?

CSP 154 | Business Growth Strategies

 

If you’re a company with employees, those are the things you need to think about. If you’re a company of one, you can probably get away without it because you are already who you are and you’re not trying to align or inspire. You’re just working. If you’re more than a company of one, then you need to be obsessing about that stuff.

You also talked about the first thing that you did when you got into 1-800-GOT-JUNK? was you raised prices. This is an interesting topic for a lot of people because of a lot of fear around raising prices. If I raise my prices, I’m going to alienate people potentially. I’m going to lose people. People will go to the competition. What you shared in addition to that was powerful, which is that you essentially balance that out by being more visible, having a better brand, having a better website, and providing a better experience. Is there anything else that people should keep in mind? Can you essentially invest more into your online brand, your presence, or your marketing? Does that then equal being able to charge more? Is there something else that’s also important when they’re thinking? How can they increase prices and get away with it that they should be considering?

It’s a decision of where you want to position yourself. You can either be a high margin, low volume. Think about coffee as an example. You can get $1 coffee. I paid $7 for coffee, which is insanity.

What was in that?

I went to 49th Parallel Coffee and I got great coffee that’s nicely roasted. It doesn’t taste like the crappy Starbucks. I got oat milk and a large for $7 and that included a tip because I felt guilty because they’re serving the coffee. You could get coffee though at a gas station or you could get coffee at a Starbucks. You could go to a 49th Parallel or you could go to some super trendy hipster place and get your coffee. You can decide where to price that. That’s like any business, any service, any product. You have to decide where you’re going to price that product or service.

I don’t think most people sit down and decide how to price themselves at a premium. As an example, if you go to my website, I have two websites, the CameronHerold.com and then the COOAlliance.com. If you go to the CameronHerold.com website and you look at that and how it positions me as a thought leader, a speaker, and a consultant or coach, it positions me strongly. I spent the time, the money, and the energy making sure that it represented me and positioned me.

I have the money to do that because I charge a lot. My effective hourly rate is $2,600 an hour for my coaching. I’m $48,000 a year to coach a company and they get 90 minutes a month. When you’re charging $4,000 for 90 minutes, there’s no cost of goods sold in that. You can afford to take that money then and put it into your branding, put it into your positioning, and put it into my service to deliver more.

The website’s a good example. Your book is another one. You said that every time you speak, you generate leads. Every time you put out a book, that also helps to generate leads. On the speaking part, given what’s going on in the world with many people having to move from in-person events to the online space, Zoom meetings or other things, any best practices that you’ve picked up that you find when you give a talk you know that doing these things is critical if you want to be able to generate leads from it? Do you know that if you didn’t do those things that it’d be less likely for you to get people inquiring and reaching out to you?

One of them is on the bottom of all of your slides, having your URL or a call to action. On my slides, check out the COO Alliance. When we’re talking to people, they understand that they need to see the COO Alliance so it becomes subliminal. I often talk about my coaching clients while I’m speaking. I talk about the other speaking events that I’m doing or how someone saw me speak to and booked me to speak at their conference.

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Maybe someone saw this lesson and booked me to come in and coach their group. I illustrate those stories. Instead of talking about theory, I’ll talk about how one of my clients learned this concept from me and they put it into their company, how they benefited. I’ll show them those stories so then they can see themselves as wanting my advice as well. I mentioned my books into the conversation where I mentioned that I wrote a book called Meetings Suck because of one of my coaching clients, Bobby Harris, who I’ve coached him for six years.

I coached him from 40 employees up to 700, and one day when they were around 200 employees, he was saying all their meetings suck and I talked to them about it and we realized his meetings didn’t suck. They sucked at running meetings so I wrote a book called Meetings Suck so that everybody would buy a copy for every employee at every company. I tell that story and then all of a sudden you can see people hopping on Amazon to go and buy the book and tell their people about the book.

You’re intentional. As you said at the beginning, with everything that you do, you don’t just write a book or put out a slide. You’re thinking through what you want people to do as a result of that.

I understand my core purpose. My core purpose is helping entrepreneurs make their dreams happen. My big hairy audacious goal is to replace vision statements with vivid visions worldwide. If I understand what my core purpose and my BHAG are, then I can drive towards my clients. My clients are entrepreneurial. They’re young, fun, entrepreneurial, high, viral, high growth, and pre-public companies. I understand my core values. Deliver what you promise, be open and vulnerable, show respect to everybody, grow big, and act small and have some fun.

When you’re clear on that, and then I can share my vivid vision of what my company looks like, acts like, and feels like. I share my vivid vision with all of my speaking event clients as well. They all see my vivid vision, but here’s probably the biggest one. The reason I wrote five books is not because I’m a good writer. It’s not because I had a burning need to share my content. It’s because I knew that by having my first book Double Double would raise my speaking fee, which it did for $5,000 at a time to about $15,000.

When I put out my second book Meetings Suck, it took me to the $30,000 level. I’ve got five books. All of my books get mentioned at all my speaking events, but I also make sure that every speaking event I do, every attendee at every event gets a copy of one of my books. Either sell them to the group or I give them to the group with a discount or worst case, I’ll send them a copy for everybody. The books give good take-homes, but they also sell the rest of my services.

Another area where you are intentional clearly from the early days is PR. You know what you want to achieve with the PR and the people around media. You’ve done that now with multiple companies, you wrote a book on it Free PR, which I told you that we’re using in house here. I’m excited to dig in and to learn more about that. When people often hear about publicity and PR, they think bigger organization or, “That’s not for me.” “Why would somebody want to cover my story?” What advice would you have for the small consulting firm owner in terms of how they could leverage PR for themselves? Any examples or key ideas to start?

One of them is that none of your potential customers are going to believe your marketing as much as they’re going to believe an article written about you. If there’s an article written about you and they read it, they’re going to believe everything the article says. The second part of that would be to be able to take any articles that are written about you and share them on your social feeds so you get more amplification from that as well. The other part is making the story about your customer and how your product, your service or your consulting helped your customer.

As an example, if I could contact any business outlet and talk to them about how my coaching helped a company called BlueGrace Logistics go from 40 employees to 700 employees in six years and how they raised $255 million from Warburg Pincus, there’s a story there. If they write that story and then I get that story and I share how InfoTrust went from being a no one company to being the number one company in Cincinnati to work for, or how Media Temple grew from being a good company in California to selling for over $100 million to GoDaddy. If I can make all of these stories about my customers, there’s a story there. The reality is the media can’t afford to go find good stories. They need to take the stories that are given to them that they’re inspired by and they’ll write about those. You’re doing them a favor.

CSP 154 | Business Growth Strategies

 

Once you’ve identified somebody who you think would be good to write up that story, what’s the best way to reach out to them? Is it sending them an email? Is it picking up the phone? What works best now?

I love picking up the phone. When you pick up the phone and contact the writer, that’s when you’re going to get their attention. When you send them an email, you’re going to get stuck with everybody else’s emails. The reality is that every journalist probably gets 200 emails, press releases and newswire sent to them a day, but their phone rings four times. If you phone them, you’ve got a 20% chance of getting through. If you send them an email, you’ve got less than a half a percent chance of them reading it.

What I do when I’m phoning them, worst case, I leave a voicemail. My voicemail says, “It’s Cameron calling. You don’t know me yet, but I think I’ve got a good story for you. Here’s my phone number.” They’re going to call you back because they want the story. If you get through to them, you say, “It’s Cameron Herold calling. I think I have a good story for you. Do you have two minutes?” They will usually say, “Yes.” You pitch them on your story and then you ask questions and listen. I cover that in good detail in the book, Free PR too.

You mentioned the way you work with your clients 40,000 or more per year. It’s situational. You’re not doing a lot of preparation in advance. It’s advisory. It’s coaching. It’s structured like a retainer. A lot of consultants want to get more into that where we call the pay for access retainer, as opposed to paying for work. You’re not doing the work. They’re paying for access to you. What are the best practices that you found in terms of setting that up and be able to justify why someone would want to pay to access you as opposed to having you do the work for them?

Some are turning yourself into a thought leader, turning yourself into that speaker, turning yourself into an author so that you can drive that forward. Some of it as well is saying no to the deliverables. “No, I don’t do that. This is what I do.” I’m not going to give you a fish. I’m going to teach you how to fish. I’m not going to give you your plan. I’m going to teach you how to write your plans. Then positioning yourself as that thought leader and the fact that no, I don’t do work. I’m going to teach you how to do the work.

Another thing that you’ve been intentional with is your pricing. You have a one-year engagement, people pay 50% upfront. The remainder is billed monthly. Why do you structure it that way specifically, 50% upfront, and then the remainder on a monthly basis?

I’ve learned that over the years that the six-month mark clients can tend to get a little overwhelmed. They’ve got enough ideas, but they don’t have time to put it all in place. They always wanted to go on pause. I’m like, “No. We’re not pausing. That wasn’t part of my plan.” What I decided to do is lock them in for a year, prove to them that they’re getting value in the year, and then put them on monthly afterwards.

The way to lock them in for the year is to get half of that upfront and I found a number that was high enough that worked, but low enough that it was a no brainer for my client size. My clients need to do about $5 million in revenue. A $50,000 decision should be a no brainer. If they’re humming and hawing over $50,000, I’m the wrong guy because we’re able to make a few million off this easily. Here are my coaching programs’ real fees. Three years after coaching ends, they have to send me a check for what they feel coaching was worth.

The question I had is how many people have done that?

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We’re at the end of the first 12 or 14 months that I’ve been doing it. I got a $240,000 check a couple of years ago on one. We only started several months ago, those will start coming due in about two years.

Is that like, “Think about it in three years.” Is that part of the contract like it’s intentionally laid out there that’s a legal part of the agreement?

It’s in the contract and I remind everybody that that’s what’s due, and then as we’re coaching, my client was like, “That’s like a million-dollar idea.” I’m like, “Remember that in three years.” He goes, “Maybe it’s $100,000.” Partially, it’s an emotional contract and it’s built off of a lesson that I learned from Ivy Lee and Charles Schwab, which is a story told in Napoleon Hill’s Think and Grow Rich. I took that and applied it. One of the coaching clients that I’ve coached from $4 million to $52 million in three years.

He went from living in his parents’ house to being extraordinarily successful. He said to me, after the three years, “You’ve got no upside. I paid you my money every year because I went from a $4 million valuation of $52 million valuations and you had none of that upside.” I wanted to have some a stake in the outcome without forcing equity. It’s too hard to ask for that but what is easy to ask for is the emotional contract of a check.

You’re creating value. You mentioned you’ve created the COO Alliance, which I love because there’s so much focus on the media out there on the CEO all the time and not as much on the COO being a little bit behind the scenes at times. I can see the band of brothers and sisters together that are COOs. Share with us a little bit about why did you create that and how have you structured it?

I structured it because there was no safe place for COOs to go and learn from each other. There was no place for them to go and share information and share ideas to mastermind together. There were lots of groups for CEOs. There was YPO and EO, Vistage, The Genius Network, GoBundance, War Room, Maverick and all these amazing places for entrepreneurs to go and learn. Then there were groups for marketers, engineers and lawyers, etc., but there was nowhere for the second in command. That’s what we put in place was this group for them.

How do you spend your time between your coaching with clients one-to-one and the COO Alliance?

I would say the COO Alliance is the focus for me. Building out something that scales, and that is one too many replicated and runs without me. That’s the one that we’re focusing on scaling. The COO and CEO coaching that I do is good. It’s profitable. I like it. I’m good at it and take the business as it comes through. I use that to pay the bills and then everything is focusing on growing the COO Alliance. I’ve got my books, my speaking and my referral program, some other income streams as well.

There’s an email that you had put up a job description for an assistant that you were looking for about a decade ago. I remember when I saw that email that you shared it, you shared the job description in an email that you had sent out and I was reading that. What stood out to me is number one, you were vulnerable. You were open about who you are and what you do and don’t do, and what you were looking for in terms of an assistant.

CSP 154 | Business Growth Strategies

 

Could you share for a minute about number one, how important is it for an entrepreneur, someone running a business to have an assistant. Number two, your thought process behind being specific in that job description because it was not a cookie-cutter. It was not the standard job description. It was specific about who you are, the way that you operate, what you like, don’t like, and what you’re looking for in a person. If you could hit on those two things, I think it would be valuable for everyone.

What looked at how do I articulate to somebody clearly from the get-go who I am, what I’m like and what I’m going to be like working with so that 50% of the people that read it go through will say, “That’s not me.” The other 50% wholesome will say, “That’s interesting.” How do I craft it in a way about them that it does the same thing? I wanted to polarize some people away and pull some people toward me. As an example, it starts by saying, “Awesome Phoenix, exact with ADD, sits equally awesome, less ADD executive personal assistant.”

I go in and I say, “I’m looking for a personal assistant who’s excited to help by enabling me to be more productive and relaxed. This is only going to happen one way. You have to be sharp and think that way out of the box.” It’s written in a way as I speak. I had people come back to me after reading the job and was like, “I can’t believe you swore.” Somebody else was like, “That’s awesome that you swore. I know we’ll get along.” I’m like, “Be careful. I don’t want somebody who’s a complete trailer trash.” It was me being me and that is how I think all companies need to be. They need to be themselves and then they’ll attract that right culture. If you try to be everything, then you become vague.

Does that then tie into your desire, the need to have an assistant? You write, you speak, you coach, you run your Alliance, how you structure your day. First, in terms of the importance of having an assistant, I know a lot of people early on go, “No. I’ll do it myself. I don’t want to put out the money for it. I can do it faster than bringing someone else on.” What’s been your experience about the value of having a system that can work on a whole bunch of things that come up day-to-day?

It’s immeasurable. There’s an old saying that if you don’t have an assistant, you are one. For me, that’s played out equally true. While we’ve been chatting, I went back to my EA and asked her a couple of quick questions that were urgent that we needed to do. She’s been working in the background for me. She handles my schedule. She books me in for a flight. She does research. She organizes personal stuff for me. It’s amazing the amount of work that an EA can do. What I’ve tried to do is look at what’s my effective hourly rate. If I coach at $2,600 an hour, anything that I would pay someone less than $2,000 an hour to do, I should be doing.

It’s like $100 tasks, I’ll outsource, $50 I’ll outsource, $20 I’ll outsource. You outsource everything except genius so that all you do is the stuff you’re good at and the stuff you get energized from. As an example, for me is I did a coaching call. I did a setup call for a speaking event. I was interviewed on a podcast. I interviewed someone on my podcast. I’m on your show and then I have two coaching calls with my team, and then I’m done. Next is coaching a client, podcast interview, meeting with my marketing team, and then I’m done at 12:00 and getting a massage at 1:00. When you delegate everything except genius, it frees up your time. It frees up your bandwidth, it frees up some of your cycle time.

Cameron, I want to make sure that people can learn more about your work, your books, and your writings. You got some great case studies as well on your website. You mentioned two websites, but if you could share them again with everyone so that they can be sure to check them out.

All of my books are available on Amazon, Audible, and iTunes. We’ve also had the Second-in-Command Podcast that people should check out where everyone interviews the entrepreneur. We interviewed the second-in-command of these companies. We have the COO of Shopify, COO of GOT-JUNK?, COO of Cleveland Indians, etc. That’s a cool thing to check out. My main website is CameronHerold.com or COOAlliance.com as well.

Cameron, thank you so much. It’s a real honor to have you here. I love that you shared so much wisdom and ideas with people. I’m excited for them to check out more of your work and learn from what you’ve accomplished.

Thanks, Michael. I appreciate you having me on.

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