Landing Bigger Consulting Clients Through Directness, Generosity and Relationships

What if the biggest thing holding back your consulting business isn’t your expertise, your offer, or even your marketing, but the relationships you’re not actively building? In this episode, I’m talking with Stephanie Wachman, founder of Symetree Strategies, who has spent fifteen years building a consulting business around leadership, culture, coaching, and organizational development.

Stephanie shares how she went from believing a website and a stack of business cards would bring in clients to learning that real growth happens when you get out from behind your computer and build relationships with the people who can actually move your business forward.

You’re going to discover how she turns small engagements into long-term corporate relationships, gets access to senior decision makers, and uses directness and generosity to create opportunities.

If you want to build a consulting business driven by trust, relationships, and reputation, you’re going to get a lot from this episode.

Enjoy.

Welcome to the Consulting Success podcast. I’m your host Michael Zipursky, and in this podcast, we’re going to dive deep into the world of elite consultants where you’re going to learn the strategies, tactics and mindset to grow a highly profitable and successful consulting business.

Before we dive into today’s episode. Are you ready to grow and take your consulting business to the next level? Many of the clients that we work with started as podcast listeners just like you, and a consistent theme they have shared with us is that they wished they had reached out sooner about our Clarity Coaching Program rather than waiting for that perfect time. If you’re interested in learning more about how we help consultants just like you, we’re offering a free, no pressure growth session call. On this call, we’re going to dive deep into your goals, challenges and situation and outline a plan that is tailor made just for you. We will also help you identify where you may be making costly and time consuming mistakes to ensure you’re benefiting from the proven methods and strategies to grow your consulting business.

So don’t wait years to find clarity. If you’re committed and serious about reaching a new level of success in your consulting business, go ahead and schedule your free growth session. Get in touch today. Just visit Consulting Success – Grow to book your free call today.

Stephanie Wachman is the Founder and CEO of Symetree Strategies, an executive coach, speaker, and bestselling author. With over 20 years of experience, she advises Fortune 500 executives and professional firms across 23 countries. Rooted in behavioral science and neuroscience, Stephanie’s work empowers leaders to enhance executive presence, build high-performing cultures, and drive strategic growth. She is a Co-founder of The Entourage Leadership Group for Women and the author of OWN Your Time and Sell Without Being Salesy.

Connect with Stephanie Wachman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coachsteph/

Discover more about Symetree Strategies: https://stephaniewachman.com/

[00:59] – Building a Business Mindset From an Early Age

Hey, Stephanie, welcome.

Thank you.

Excited for our conversation today, and I thought we could start by having you share just briefly what you were doing, you know, before you started Symetree Strategies.

So before I started the company, I’m going to go back many years, but in my early to mid-twenties, I was, I’m from Montreal, so I was living in Montreal, working in manufacturing for an office products company. I was very, very senior for a very young person. I was managing thirteen or fourteen million dollars globally, managing a global sales team, and literally creating products in the office products industry for stores like Walmart and Office Depot and Staples. I was responsible for all of it, the planograms, the sales, like everything. I had a very, very senior-level position.

Fast forward. I fell in love with an American, and I moved to the States, and I was still holding this big job where I was traveling all over the place. And after I had my first son, I really had a hard time balancing the travel and being present. And one day my son hurt his knee. He was like two years old, and he went right to his dad, and he wouldn’t come to me. And it broke my heart, and I literally had a meltdown there and then, and I said, “That’s it, no more travel, no more big job. I’m going to find something local.” I still had to work, but I just didn’t want to have that responsibility of traveling.

I quit my job the next day, and I found a job doing door-to-door sales, so to speak, for a company called Aramark, which was just selling uniforms to companies. It was a very B2B kind of sales job, and I loved it because I had no responsibilities. And they kept wanting to promote me. And I said, “No, I’m happy just seeing my kids every day.” Eventually, my kids got a little bit older, and I really gave some deep thought to what I wanted to do and focused on what I loved doing when I was working in corporate, which was the business development and training and product development. I thought, you know what, I’m going to work on that. And that’s where Symetree came from. I went to coaching school and started studying coaching and consulting and started my company from there.

So before we dive deeper into all that, you piqued my interest when you said that at a young age you were given a lot of responsibility and you had a higher-level position. What do you think inside of you, like what made you different from, let’s say, the average person in that company? And it sounds like that happened again when you started to do door-to-door sales of uniforms, which I think for most people probably joining us would be like, that sounds absolutely terrible or very scary. But tell me about where does that mindset come from or what kind of characteristics or skills were you bringing to the table that were different from maybe the average person.

When I studied in school, it was communications. I wanted to go into broadcasting, and I worked for the Montreal Comedy Festival, I worked in radio, I worked in television. I really loved that area. And I grew up in a family-owned business. My dad owned a manufacturing company. And he created retail packaging for all the stores across Canada. So let’s just say, for example, you went into a store like a Tiffany’s, the box, the tissue paper, the ribbon, that all came from my dad’s company.

I traveled with my family from the time I was three years old across Canada, helping them set up trade shows and booths and working at my father’s company after school. It wasn’t “Can you?”, it was what you did. So I worked in all departments, I did inventory. I really understood sales and business my whole life. I always say I got my MBA in the kitchen because my parents talked about the company all the time. It was a big Canadian company. And that’s really where my education came from. And that’s where my motivation also comes from because I love business and understand business so well. I think that’s what they saw in me as a young business person.

Yeah, that’s great. I mean, the power of being surrounded or brought up in an environment like that certainly can stick with you for your whole life.

So when you went out on your own, I mean, you kind of just described that moment where you decide, okay, I’m going to go off now on my own. What did you underestimate or what maybe was more challenging for you initially than you expected?

[05:30] – Why a Website Won’t Win Consulting Clients

Oh my gosh. It was crazy. I thought, look, I did sales, right? I did sales for Aramark. I did sales for these other companies that I worked for. I know how to sell. It’s not hard for me to sell. I get it.

What I didn’t realize was after I went to coaching school, and I created my website, and I printed out my little business cards, and I cut the perforations, and I was handing them out, nobody called me. What I underestimated was the fact that unless people know you, you’re not going to get business. Just having a business card and a website is not what’s going to make a business. And I thought it would- I thought it would be a lot easier than actually having to build a network at the time, because I came from corporate, I didn’t have a network, and I had to build one from scratch, and that was really hard.

The other thing I noticed I wanted to ask you about is I know that you’ve written at least two books from what I saw, one on time management, and then we could talk about the other one afterwards. But for you to go from kind of being known around time management, then more broadly moving towards leadership and organizational development or consulting, what was that shift like? How much of that was by choice compared to the market kind of made you do that, or how did you navigate or even just think about it, like, why that transition?

[06:50] – Use a Gateway Offer to Land Bigger Engagements

All right, listeners, this is the truth. This was a very calculated move on my part. I studied coaching. I wanted to do executive coaching. But it wasn’t just easy to get a coaching client. So I really thought about, well, what’s the gateway? What is it that everybody struggles with across the board? And it was always time. I interviewed and talked to a lot of people, and I’m like, “What’s the problem?” “I don’t have enough time.” Time comes up for everybody across the board. It levels the playing field.

So that was basically my calling card. I’m like, if I can create something using my own experiences around time management, but not from a perspective of this is how you use an Outlook calendar, but around the behaviors that we have as individuals that go around our losing time, not focusing, distractions, all that. That was my calling card to say, “Hey, let me come in and talk to your company about time management, managing distractions,” and then having them complete these surveys saying, “Hey, would you be interested in a coaching session on this topic?” And that’s kind of how I built my business.

Yeah, I mean, I’ve had the benefit of being able to see your commitment. I know even from our first conversation, when you were considering coming into the Clarity Coaching Program, and then hearing about as you’re working through and making progress, that you are a very focused, dedicated, committed person. And you’ve written on this topic, you’ve done a lot of work on this topic. I wonder what stands out for you. Like, when you look at other people who maybe have great skills, a lot of experience, but they’re not growing their business, they’re not making the progress that they want in their life, from your vantage point, what do you see? What are they missing that you feel really would make the difference for them?

You can’t sit at your computer and hope that things are going to happen. You just can’t. You’ve got to put yourself out there. And I remind myself, after we even had our conversation, that I was so busy doing the work that you don’t get out there and do what brings you exposure or get on the phone and make calls. You really have to get out there because the marketplace is very crowded. Push yourself to connect with new people, to talk with old people, to update your material.

For example, what I worked on with time management when I wrote my book. Well, a lot of things have happened since then with the advent of AI, with distractions becoming more, more people more distracted by their phones than ever before. Things are happening, and it’s paying attention to what’s going on and then talking about it and then reminding your past clients, “Hey, remember I came in like ten years ago to talk about this? Well, things have changed, and maybe this would benefit your team right now.”

I also think, and this is not always the most popular approach, but there are companies that you might want to get into if you’re looking at corporate. I do a lot of corporate work, and sometimes it’s about taking a step forward without getting paid to say, “Hey, let me come in, I’m testing some new content. Let me come in and talk to you about this new approach to time management. In exchange, I want feedback and maybe testimonials if this lands for you.” And that helps you get recognition within these larger companies, but it also validates the quality of your content without putting pressure on you when you’re developing new things, and it gets your name out there again.

So what I’m hearing you saying, and I think this is certainly something I’ve observed for many years, a lot of well-intentioned people spend a lot of time building things, right, kind of from behind the safety of their computer, and they feel very productive because they are doing things with AI. Now it’s even easier to feel like you’re being productive because you can click a button and all of a sudden have a report done. Doesn’t mean it’s going to actually do anything for you or that it’s the right information, but you at least feel kind of empowered because you can create something very quickly, but that doesn’t always mean success. And so what I’m hearing you say is that it’s about taking action.

But I think if we go a little bit deeper than that, the question I have for you, Stephanie, is how do you know, like what’s been your experience to know that you’re actually taking the right actions? Because again, well-intentioned people spend a lot of time, let’s say on LinkedIn or sending a whole bunch of emails or playing with AI, and they’re spending time on what they think is right, but it doesn’t actually get them the results. So how do you think about that to make sure you’re calibrating to spending the time on the things that truly will move the business forward?

You know, it’s multifaceted, and I have a very long-winded answer for this one.

So hold onto your seats, everyone.

[11:28] – Why Relationships Matter More in the Age of AI

But I think as part of your marketing, you have to be on LinkedIn, and you have to be on Instagram, and you have to be on Facebook. Like, that’s part of your marketing, and you have to do those things, but that’s only one part of your marketing. The other part of the marketing is what you are doing to get in front of the right people and identifying your network.

And so I think identifying what that network is is equally important because what I’ve learned from AI, and from working with AI, is that it’s going to keep you real busy all the time because AI always has more suggestions for you. “Oh, this is a really good presentation, but if you do this, it’ll be even better.” And before you know it, you’re sat at your computer for four hours trying to improve something that AI thinks you can do better. And then you lose the trust in yourself to say, “You know what, this isn’t actually getting me anywhere other than spinning in circles.” There’s no perfect.

But I do know, and in working with a lot of lawyers and law firms, and in speaking with them, what I am realizing is that as AI starts to disrupt all the markets in terms of taking the place of jobs, like you don’t need a lawyer to do every part of an NDA anymore maybe, or an employment agreement. But what isn’t going away is those interpersonal relationships. Those interpersonal relationships, I think, are what’s going to be leveraging consultants moving forward. It’s not the AI, it’s not the paper material because everybody can produce that, but it’s that relationship.

So what are you doing to develop that relationship even further? And I believe very strongly- like this morning, I had breakfast with a client that I’ve worked with for eight years, and I was just asking her, “What’s going on in your business? What are your challenges?” And I’m learning more so that I can bring more to the table. And she asked me, she said, “Hey, would you be interested in talking about culture at this next event? Because you do so much work on culture, and I just thought of you.” And it’s just by getting in front of somebody and talking and asking open-ended questions where they’re like, “Oh yeah, I remember you.”

For sure, and those are the exact, I think, really good examples of the importance of again, taking action, reaching out to people, building relationships, the things that AI can’t do, right? And those are the things that oftentimes people are a little bit scared to take action on because it can feel uncomfortable to reach out to somebody or to follow up or to spend the time to go and take somebody out for lunch or host a dinner. But these are the things that really can make a big difference.

So what’s been your experience, Stephanie, and how have you thought about this idea of expanding to offer different things to different people as opposed to narrowing and saying, “I really want to be known for this one thing”? How did you go from being time management to now you’re talking about culture, you’re talking about leadership, business development? How have you navigated that choice that oftentimes consultants have to make? And it’s a challenging one for them because generally people want to offer more to more people. But many other times people find that narrowing actually gets them a much better result. So what’s been your experience with that?

[14:33] – Turn Small Projects Into Long-Term Consulting Work

It’s a really tough one. I still struggle with it a lot because what happened for me and where it’s changed, so I’m going to talk about two parts because I’ve been in practice for fifteen years now. So what happened for me was I studied coaching. I wrote the book on time management. And so then I started to get engagements on time management, which I leveraged into some coaching. And then I really built up those coaching relationships and built up my relationships with this client or the sponsor to the point where they would ask me, like I had one client in private equity who I’d been working with, and they said, “Hey, can you do a workshop for us on delegation?” I’m like, “Sure, I can do that.” And they’re like, “Hey, can you coach the president of the company?” “Sure, I can do that.” “Hey, McKinsey just came in and did an analysis for us, and they want to do a culture program, but they’re charging us a million dollars. Can you do that?”

And of course, being a salesperson, I say ‘yes’ to everything. And then I figure out, I’m like, “Oh, crap, I don’t know what I’m doing.” But I figured out, like, I have the connections and the community to say, “Okay, I can figure this out.” So I am always a ‘yes’. And then I panic, and then I figure it out. And so that’s why my company has morphed from just doing time management and coaching to corporate culture, change management. And I also started to build up experiences with professional services. For whatever reasons, venture capital, private equity, law firms, they all started to work with me. So then I really honed in on programs specific to those markets. And that’s where my second book came in, which was on relationship networking. Because I saw a lot of the lawyers were asking me, “How do you grow your practice?”

But then again, things kept morphing in different directions. I was the past president of the International Coach Federation in Colorado, and I met somebody that worked at a Fortune 50 company, and then I went on television to talk about ICF, and somebody from KPMG saw me and hired me. So these things have morphed in weird ways organically. And so now, you know, one of the things that I’m working with Consulting Success on is the fact that I’ve morphed into so many directions, it’s really hard for me to say I only work with one niche. I have all this experience, and it does get harder the longer that you’re- for me anyways, the longer I’ve been in practice, it has gotten a little harder to say this is what I do, other than saying I’m a consultant and I service all of these categories with a specialization in certain areas. I don’t think that answers the question. It seems to be evolving.

Yeah, you’re working through it. But I think it’s still valuable to get your perspective and experience on that.

You mentioned, Stephanie, in terms of you’ve generated business in many different ways. With the benefit of hindsight, if you were to look at the last twelve, twenty-four months, what’s been working best for you, what’s the main one or two drivers of your business growth over the last few years? And I’m wondering if you’re doing anything differently today compared to years in the past of what’s really helping to generate more business.

[17:48] – Build Relationships With Senior Decision Makers

Well, what really worked for me the best was the relationships that I had, like the relationships that I had with some of these bigger companies. So when a KPMG came up to me and said, “Hey, can you coach this one person?”, I got with the sponsor and said, “Hey, I know I’m doing coaching for this one person, but I also talk on time management, and I see a lot of companies really benefit because there’s so much struggle around that. So why don’t I come in and do a complimentary thirty-minute, forty-minute presentation on this topic?” And so now I’m building that relationship with the managing partner about what I do. And then they have me come in and do, “Hey, that worked out really well. Can you come do our leadership retreat in Orlando?”

So building relationships with the sponsors, not just with the individual. So if you’re coaching and you’re coaching one person, how do you build that relationship with the person that actually is the decision maker? In my experience, the decision makers are not typically the human resources people. They’re the managing partners, they’re the CFOs, they’re the executive vice presidents. Those are the ones that really have the ability to make those decisions. My recommendation is always to take a look at the network that you have right now and the people that you’re working with right now and sit down with them and build that relationship, build it stronger, and offer something that’s of value because then you’re able to get wider.

So a situation I know many consultants find themselves in is they’ll be brought into an organization, and whoever their main point of contact is, whether it’s HR or somewhere else, it’s not always going to be the managing partner or somebody higher up in the organization that actually has the ability to move things, change things, get past procurement, and so forth. What’s your counsel or advice or just even experience on that? If you’re brought in but you know there’s somebody else that you really want to reach, but you don’t have the relationship with that person, how have you found is the best way to go about building a relationship with someone else?

There’s so many ways of doing it. One is find out where these people go. Like, in terms of what events are they going to, what conferences are they going to, find that out. Where are they going so that you can make yourself available.

Don’t be afraid to ask. Like, so if you’re working with somebody in HR saying, “Hey, I would really like to speak to whoever the boss is, right? I’d really like to speak to them because I’m expanding in this area, and I would really appreciate fifteen or twenty minutes of their insights. And in exchange, I’ll share with them what I’m seeing in the market as well.” And these are things that you can add that’s of value to skip over, because people that are not the decision makers, in my view, are a total waste of time. They’re just tire kickers. And I have no patience for them at all. Like, I just don’t. You know, when you say, “I have to speak to the committee,” I’m like rolling my eyes. I’m like, “I don’t want to speak to you. I want to go to the committee.”

So I’m always going to find ways of getting in there. And I have found, like right now, I’m an expert in what I do. Say, for example, for law firms, I’m seeing a lot of things going on with firms that I’m studying on a global basis because of my interactions. And I’m talking to managing partners and CEOs of law firms saying, “Hey, I have something that I want to share with you in terms of my observations because that can help you as you’re building your budgets for 2027.” So bring the value to these conversations.

What I’m really hearing you say, just to summarize for everyone’s benefit, is think about where you can add value for the person that you want to meet and build a relationship with. It’s not just about trying to set a meeting to sell more or talk about your services. It’s really what value can you bring, so that when they hear that, they’re more likely to say ‘yes’. Because what every executive is looking for is an advantage, right? They don’t know what they don’t know, and they recognize that they don’t know certain things. And so anyone that can give them the ability to see around corners or to have some advantage over others is a sign that they’re generally more open to actually considering and then can get you the conversation, is that right?

And I have more to add to that, Michael. I have a lot.

Let’s do it.

[22:02] – Nurture Your Network for Long-Term Growth

Okay, so nurture, nurture your relationships. Plant the seeds with your network. If you have a network, build it. Because it might not be this year that they’re going to hire you, and it might not be next year, but it could be ten years from now.

I helped this guy write a book. He’s the president of this massive company, an international company, and he said, “Hey, can you help me? Somebody gave me your name, and I’m writing this book.” So I gave him the name of my editor. I followed up with him many, many times because he’s like a bigwig. He’s also a cyclist. So I followed up with him. I’ve got a lot of stories like this. It’s been eight years. And I reached out to him, and I’m like, “Hey, don’t you do corporate retreats? Like, how come you haven’t hired me to do any of your retreats?” Have some hustle, you know? Turns out now I’m doing one of his corporate retreats because I’m like- have some hustle.

I had another client that hired me to speak at one of their conferences. It was a really big national conference that they had here in Colorado. And after that, it was ‘crickets’. I had nothing. I only met with one person, and she happened to have been a salesperson. So I called her up two months later, and I said, “Hey, I’m going to be in Utah. Maybe we can get together. I have a meeting, and maybe we can have lunch.” I had no business in Utah. I brought my bathing suit with me. I went to the gym when I landed in Utah, but I had lunch with her, and that turned into $100,000 worth of business over five years.

Would you say that for you, and again, this maybe comes across as your style, not necessarily that everyone’s going to be like this, but how important has been being direct, like in terms of when you see something that you want, when you see value that you can add? It sounds like, again, let me know if I’m misreading this, but it sounds like if you see it, you’re going to speak it directly. You’re not going to hold back. Is that true?

Totally true.

And how effective has that been? And has that ever felt uncomfortable for you? And did you learn it, or is this kind of the way that you were raised, or where does this come from? Because I recognize that not everybody necessarily would feel comfortable doing that. But it sounds like, in my experience as well, that saying what you want to say or what you believe you need to say is actually the right thing to do.

[24:09] – Build Trust by Being Direct With Clients

I really think that you have to believe in your abilities, and you have to trust in your abilities. So if a client says, “You know, we’d like you to come in for a workshop,” I’ll tell them, “That’s great. I’d love to do a workshop, but it’s going to be a really nice conversation that I’m going to have and probably not a lot of retention. What really works is three workshops, and you can do what you want, what your budget allows. But I’m just going to share with you my experience because I’m the expert in this area, and I trust that, and I know my abilities.”

So I think that it’s important that if you’re shy or if you’re uncomfortable, that’s a challenge that you’re going to have to overcome, because relationships are really what help grow your business. And people that know you and trust you, you are the trusted advisor, and you have to get over that discomfort.

I think it takes me back to my time in Japan. I was in my early twenties, and I had opened up a branch office for one of our consulting businesses at that time. And I learned this lesson of how important it is to be direct. I remember sitting around with a bunch of Japanese executives and the president of this large company, and everyone was just talking and talking in typical Japanese style. Nobody really says what they want to say, right? They’re concerned, especially around the president. And I just said, partially because maybe I didn’t know or I think really I was just getting tired of it felt like we were just wasting time. So I said, “Listen, if you want something that feels more Japanese, go with this. If you want something that is going to speak more to the international market, you should choose this.” He’s like, “Okay, international market, let’s do that.” And everyone’s like, “Oh, okay, great.”

So for me, that was a very clear indication, and I realized this afterwards, maybe before as well, that executives and decision makers, they want people to tell them their opinions. They don’t want people just to say ‘yes’ because they’re surrounded by those yes people all the time, and they respect that. If you have expertise, it’s your responsibility to share that, not to hold back. I have also had experiences of when I was younger, being maybe a little bit too brash or saying certain things that maybe I shouldn’t have said, but I learned from that. And so I think it’s a balance of you need to be direct, but you need to be respectful when you are direct so that when you share that information, it comes across that you’re doing it not because you believe you know everything, but rather because you care about the person’s situation and you do feel that you have expertise or experience or observations that would be of benefit to them.

I absolutely agree, and I think that you’re right in terms of kind of modifying that messaging. I’m not as brash as I’m sounding on this call, but I always will ask my clients, or my prospects, “Can I share my experience in doing this? Because I’ve been doing it for a while in terms of what really works. I’m happy to share that information with you, what I’m seeing, what my observations are,” because my filter and the reason I do what I do is because I want to have a lasting impact, not just with one person, but I want whatever I’m doing with an executive team to cascade throughout an organization to over fifteen or twenty or 30,000 people. It’s really important to me.

When you’re talking with prospective clients or people that you know, are they buying Stephanie or are they buying the team that you’ve assembled and the result? What does that look like today? And has it changed from years prior?

[27:25] – Scale Your Consulting Business Beyond Yourself

So I always own the relationship with whoever the client is. That’s across the board. I’ve partnered with a lot of coaches over the years and other consultants over the years. I have a team of contractors that I work with that are part of my team, and they always hire me. But they also know that the people on my team are very skilled. So I will go in and do, like I will bring people in from my team, but at the end of the day, the relationship I always own. And I do bring in a lot of people on my team, but I vet them very, very carefully.

So a challenge that many people find when they are the face of the business, and they are essentially what the buyer is buying, is that it doesn’t scale, or it’s much more challenging to scale because the expectation from the client that often is that the consultant is doing all of the work. So I’m wondering, what have you learned or how have you worked through that? They’re buying you, but they’re not getting 100 percent of you in terms of, let’s say the project is 100 percent or let’s say it’s five stages. Maybe you’re involved in three of the stages, but not the other two. And so there’s leverage and ability there for you to scale because you have other experts involved in some parts of the process. Is there anything that you’ve found has helped you to be able to sell that and to get clients to accept that they’re getting you and they’re trusting you, but you’re not the one necessarily doing everything on all projects?

One of the things that I found to be very helpful is to bring on whoever it is in the very beginning. So, for example, like my project coordinator, Emily, I will bring her into the conversation right away. “Oh, Emily is going to get that org chart to you. And Emily’s working on this, and Emily’s doing that. And then when Michael comes to talk about the workshop on critical thinking-” and then I set up team meetings. So I’ll set up a meeting with the sponsor and whoever is involved in the team to introduce themselves, to talk about what they do, so that it’s not just happening, that they’re part of it from the very beginning.

So if I’m creating a leadership program, and I’m going to tell them, like, “I don’t like doing assessments. It’s not my jam, but I have two people on my team who are assessment junkies. They love them, they’ll do assessments all day long. So you don’t want me to do that, but these are the people that will do that.” And so I’ll introduce them, and then they can choose who they want to work with, where the right fit is. So I do that right from the get-go.

Yeah, I think that’s great advice. Is there anything that you’ve learned to look for or must-haves when you are bringing on team members, contractors that you’re going to work with?

Yeah, for me, most of my contractors are past clients who have recently retired, and they come from really big companies like Microsoft or KPMG, like former managing partners who have mandated retirement and they only want to work and dabble a little bit. But they’re big names, and that’s who I want in my company. So I’m very deliberate about who I choose to do any kind of contracting work for my company specifically.

So a question that some might have as they hear that is, well, don’t those people cost a lot? How do you think about that? Is it, “Hey, they’re retired, so money is not the big thing for them,” or it just means you have to charge more, and you are a premium provider? What’s the pricing strategy or the positioning around being able to access top talent like that, very experienced people?

I’m a big negotiator, love negotiating. I mean, honestly, a lot of the people that I work with, they don’t need to make any money. But they do, some of them do work with Boston Consulting Group or other big companies, and I match whatever their fees are, and I charge the client for it. I’m like, “You can get somebody that’s not the former executive vice president of Microsoft to coach you, that’s fine. Or you could spend another $200 and get somebody who’s got this experience.” That’s pretty much my approach. And I choose also, I also have some of the contractors I work with, they don’t charge as much. They’re not that senior level, but they’re still highly qualified people. But it’s not going to cost $600-700 an hour.

If someone’s thinking about, I mean, you mentioned the example, like, let’s say a McKinsey or just any large global name. But if somebody was thinking, “Hey, we want help in this area,” the advantage of them hiring you and your company, Symetree, over, let’s say, going to a larger firm because they’re getting access to somebody like yourself and the people that you have on your bench that are also very experienced. How do you position, how do you talk about, how do you think about the main differentiation or value add that selecting your company over, let’s say, others? What does that look like?

[32:09] – Position a Boutique Consulting Firm Against Big Firms

Well, we’re not in the market of competition, so we’re not competing with McKinsey. We’re not competing with Boston Consulting Group. What we do is if you’ve used them for an analysis of your company or you’re looking at your culture or succession planning, and they’ve offered you a strategy for working with them, I’ll usually just say we complement what they do. Our team is smaller, we’re more agile, we’re more approachable, and you’re not getting junior associates. So often with these companies, you’re getting more junior people to do that kind of work versus in our company where you get more senior people.

And that’s not something that comes up very often. Again, most of the clients, and this is one of the reasons why I started working with Consulting Success, most of my clients I’ve had for a very long time, so I’m not really having to position myself. But now I find that I’m going back to market because I have to expand my network. And so this is something I have to start talking about more.

Yeah, no, I think that’s great. And definitely I’d encourage anyone who’s in a similar situation- it’s not about competition, but it is always good to think about your positioning in the market compared to alternatives. And what is that value add? What is that reason? What is the difference between what you’re providing and others? And what you touched on in terms of they provide a lot of juniors, right? Very common. And with you and your team, they’re getting senior people, so that’s great.

Listen, Stephanie, I want to thank you for coming on. I know we just kind of scratched the surface of your journey, your company. You’ve written two books. We didn’t get into the second one, but it is called, I had it here. It’s Sell Without Being Salesy. Yeah, I love that title. So Sell Without Being Salesy. We’ll link that up also in the show notes. Where should people go, though, to learn more about you, to connect, to see more about you and your work and your team?

Well, I love connecting with other people. I love connecting with other consultants, other coaches. So you can email me at [email protected]. That’s s-y-m-e-t-r-e-e-s-t-r-a-t.com. Or on LinkedIn. Stephanie Wachman on LinkedIn. No T in Wachman.

Yes. No T. We’ll link that up in the show notes. Again, Stephanie, thanks so much for coming on.

Thank you. Thanks for having me, Michael.

Important Links:

Stephanie Wachman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coachsteph/

Symetree Strategies: https://stephaniewachman.com/

Stephanie’s Email: [email protected]

Stephanie’s Books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Stephanie-Wachman/author/B01LYD5CJL?ref=ap_rdr&shoppingPortalEnabled=true

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