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The Opposite Of Selling: Consulting Secrets For Engaging Buyers With Bob Urichuck: Podcast #45

CSP 45 | Engage Buyers In Consulting

What’s the most productive time of your day? What would happen if you dedicated one hour of your most productive time to the most important person in the world every day? This is part of Bob Urichuck’s daily routine, and it has resulted in positive improvements to his business. He would visualize, doing anything to help him get where he wants to go at seven o’clock. Any behavior that gets recognized and rewarded gets repeated. Same goes for sales and marketing, where subtlety is highly appreciated. Bob Urichuck talks about the fine art of engaging buyers to buy. He has remained in the top ten sales gurus in the Global Gurus annual list, using his expertise in sales to help consultants and business owners. Bob teaches the opposite of selling, consulting in a way that allows people to engage buyers to buy as opposed to selling them or convincing them as it’s traditionally known.

Listen to the podcast here:

The Opposite Of Selling: Consulting Secrets For Engaging Buyers With Bob Urichuck

I’m very excited to have Bob Urichuck joining us. Bob, welcome.

Thank you, Michael. It’s great to be here.

For those who don’t know you, aren’t familiar with your work, just take a moment and share with us what you do.

Basically, I positioned myself about twenty years ago as an international professional speaker, trainer and author. I’ve been recognized with many rewards. One of my largest claims to fame is I’ve remained in the top ten sales gurus and global sales gurus. They put out a list every year, the top 30. I’ve managed to maintain top ten status. Sales is really my area of expertise. What I do a lot is I help consultants, salespeople, and business owners. I teach them how to engage buyers to buy. In other words, I teach the opposite of selling and I consult in a way that allows people to engage buyers to buy as opposed to selling them or convincing them as it’s traditionally known.

You mentioned this ranking that is something that you look at. Tell me more about that. I’m not very familiar with that. What was that ranking all about and how you’ve been able to maintain it over so many years?

I started twenty years ago and about 2008, I’ve got an email from a friend of mine in Bali, “Bob, congratulations.” I go, “What’s happening here?” He says, “Check this out.” I checked it out and I think I was ranked number six or seven at that time. I think Global Gurus is what it’s referred to and they have people identified in leadership, customer service, sales, this sort of thing.

Do you have any idea how you got onto that?

I, for the past twenty years, have used Singapore and Dubai as my hubs. I have basically consulted or worked with companies in about 50 different countries around the world over the last twenty years. I became quite well-known. I’ve even spoken to audiences as large as 10,000 people in Singapore and Kuala Lumpur. I think it’s just that word of mouth. I also developed the Velocity Selling System, which is a non-traditional approach to selling. I think that got me more credibility than my name did because I really think it’s the system that got me there. It’s not me. I’m just a guy that enjoys life fully and has a lot of fun doing it.

Talk to me a little more about these hubs because I think that’s interesting and a little bit different from the conventional consultant or trainer or speaker who has a base one and then just travels around. When you said that you set up these hubs, tell me a little bit more what does that actually look like or what did it look like and why you did that?

I was in the corporate world. I had a business failure at age 30. I lost everything, got into the corporate world, got myself back on my feet after fifteen years, and decided this wasn’t my cup of tea. I decided to become a professional speaker, trainer, and author. International was a big part of it. I was speaking to someone and he said, “Where do you want to go?” I said, “You’ve got a globe?” He pulled out a globe and I put my finger on Ottawa, Canada, and then I put it on the other side of the globe and it touched Singapore. I used points to fly to Singapore; but before leaving what I did is I got on the internet, found the ten best hotels, and I offered them eight hours of sales training in exchange for a suite for two weeks.

I did only ten out of the ten to reply. I took up the first offer, flew to Singapore. Spent two weeks there, trained their staff at night, networked during the day, picked up a first client, and then a second client, and then I ended up going to Singapore as much as eight to ten times a year. After a year or two, I was invited to speak in Pakistan. I said, “Pakistan, I wonder how close that is to Dubai?” I looked on that. I applied the same strategy and I started to work in Dubai. In Dubai, I actually found an agent who represented me and lined me up with contract. I would end up going to both Singapore and Dubai anywhere from eight to ten times a year for a period of about fifteen years.

The client that you’ve first lined in Singapore, was that your first client in this business or have you landed clients previously to that after leaving the corporate world?

This all happened within 30 to 45 days of me leaving my corporate job, but I already had a couple of clients locally.

How did you get those first few clients? Even the first client, do you remember? You left your corporate job and then how did you go about finding that first client?

Going to networking events, basically what I find as one of my best marketing tools is speaking. It’s the old story in sales or even in consulting one-on-one. Like you and I, we can have a conversation one-on-one and at the end of that you’re either going to say yes or no or as a salesperson, I’m going to chase you forever. What I’ve learned and I use this a lot, I call it ROTI. Let me ask you a question, which is more important, money or time?

Time.

Most people look for ROI. I look for ROTI, Return On Time Invested. If I’m going to spend a half an hour, where am I going to get the best ROTI? One-on-one or one-on-100? If I speak to a hundred people, there’s going to be 15% to 20% that may want to do business with me and they’ll chase me. This is one of the things consultants need to learn, is how to develop their word of mouth and how to use pull strategies as opposed to push strategies to get them more business.

You were in the corporate world, you obviously had experience in sales. That’s kind of why you decide to get into sales as a consultant and speaker, is that correct? 

Actually, I started out more in the motivational side, but sales were always part of my past. It’s something I love, because I do honestly believe that without a sale, nothing happens. Organizations wouldn’t exist, nobody would have a job. It all starts with making a sale.

How did that transition happen? You left the corporate world, you start off the speaking more on motivation, and then from there, it sounds like you really transitioned more to sales. Why did that transition happen and how did it happen? I’m very interested in you kind of narrowing in on a specialization.

Let’s go back a few years. When I was 30 years old, I had a business failure and I had to start over again. I got a job. When I started the job, I asked myself, “Why am I here?” This is something I ask people all over the world now is, “Why do you go to work?” You get answers, to pay the bills, money. That wasn’t the reason I was going to work. I said, “I’ve got fifteen years here to clean up this debt and get back on my feet again.” Let’s pretend it’s fifteen years from now. What do you want to be? You could stay here and get in the corporate world and leave with an index pension. What else would you want? I said, “I’ve always wanted to be a speaker, trainer, and author.” Why don’t we work the both angles? Let’s use this corporate job as an opportunity to learn as much as I can about communication skills, about marketing, about sales, and all the rest. During that fifteen-year period, I learned a ton of information.

CSP 45 | Engage Buyers In Consulting

I created my own career path. By 45, it gave me the confidence. Yes, I am going in this route. There was even one time I tried to get fired because I heard it was a better bio. What happened was they ended up moving me out of the mainstream into the learning center. They had a learning center and they put me through an adult learning course and gave me all the training and I would go out and get certified on courses, come back, and I would train 90 trainers who would train 55,000 employees across the country. When I got to that point, I had the confidence level that I could do this and I knew I could.

One of the other things I wanted to get away from was I was seeing more and more, one, two-day, three-day sales classes, which to me don’t work. You lose everything within the first 30 days. You forget it unless it’s continuous learning and reinforced, you’ll lose it. My whole objective was to get into continuous learning and continuous consulting. Once you get a client, how can you keep that client for a longer term and maintain and increase their revenues.

This is really interesting and I want to back up a moment here to explore the story a bit more because I’m fascinated by your approach to entering into new markets. Some of our listeners may know that I’ve built a business in Japan many years ago and spent seven years there. For me, international markets, traveling with my family, it’s something that I do a lot. I’m fascinated that you decided and go to Singapore and that you even thought to reach out to hotels to say, “I’m going to be there, I’ll exchange a suite at your hotel for some sales training.” Where did that even come from? How did you even think of doing that?

I’ve always had this mentality of creating win-wins and not everybody has a budget. How can you create a win and give them a win without money changing hands? A similar story, Michael. I’m in the beaches in Malaysia and I see all these Ski-Doos running around. Everyone is having fun. I say to the guy next to me, “You don’t want to get back to Canada. I’m going to look up who’s responsible for Bombardier sales.” BRP. The Can-Am products. It took me about two years to find the right person. Then he finally met with me after an hour of discussion. He says, “Bob, every one of our dealers across Canada and United States need sales training, but we don’t have a budget.”

I said, “Did I talk to you about money?” He says, “No, but you’re going to want something.” I said, “You’ve got twice.” He jumped out of his seat and he says, “What do you want?” We ended up doing a little trade where I was going to do five keynotes in exchange for a $25,000 jet boat. We ended up changing it to an all-terrain vehicle instead of a jet boat. I’ve gotten watches from Rolex. I’ve worked with Bulgari. You just got to find a way. You’ve got to be creative. When you’re a sole entrepreneur and you know what you can do and what you can’t do, you open up. I’ve had many opportunities that have come my way because I was a little more flexible and it wasn’t always about the money.

What I really take from this more than even flexibility is the importance of asking for something. I’m putting it out there. Many consultants know as an example that they should earn higher fees or they need to do more prospecting or they need to create more content. There’s some action that deep down inside they know that they need to take, but they hold off taking it because of a fear of rejection or fear of the unknown or something else going on in their mind. Your example here is such a great one of doing something that most people wouldn’t think of. Even if they thought of it, they would go, “That might come across as being weird.” How are they going to respond to it? Looking at all these reasons why it wouldn’t work, but you’re a clear example of it did work and it worked in the way that you wanted it to.

Michael, you’ve got it. Let me share something with you about asking. ASK is an acronym and you know the answer to this. A stands for ask and you will receive. S stands for seek and you will find. K stands for knock and the door will be open. When was the last time you sat down with the most important person in the world, yourself? You looked in the mirror and ask yourself, “What do you want out of life? What do you want to be? What do you want to do? What do you want to have?”

Once you know it, you can go seeking. It’s in the seeking that the doors of opportunity come right in front of us, but if you don’t know what you’re looking for, you’re not seeking. Once you’re seeking and you know what you’re looking for, the doors come forward and then all you’re going to do is ASK. If you don’t ASK, you don’t get, and this is the foundation to our whole sale system that puts the consultant, the sales person, or the business owner in control. It’s all about asking questions and if you don’t ask, you don’t get. If I don’t ask, I’m losing face. I get nothing. If I asked, I’ve got a 50/50 chance of getting a positive response, do I not? I’m better off asking than not asking what have you got to lose? Nothing.

Bob, you mentioned how important speaking has been for your business and especially in the early days to get things started. How about these days? What’s working best for you to get in front of ideal clients and set up conversations with them?

I’m more on a retirement state these days and I do still some consulting with a select few clients. I’m not actively looking for business, but what I find is whenever you get in front of a group of people and you give them value, you educate them, give them value, people will come looking for you by name. This is part of what we call a personal marketing plan. Every consultant out there has to put together what I call a personal marketing plan. How do you position yourself in your market as an expert so people come looking for you by name? You could write books, you could write blogs, you can go out and speak and generate by sharing your message.

Michael, you know a lot about consulting. If you were to take a half hour and just unload and help people like you’re doing your podcast, you’re going to get people calling on you because, “I liked this guy. He’s given us something of value,” and that’s what people are looking for today is value. Value often comes in the form of a surprise, and I am full of surprises. I could never forget when I was speaking in Singapore and sharing the stage at that time with Tony Robin’s wife and Robert Kiyosaki. There are 10,000 people in the audience. What do I do? “Everybody here today is entitled to Free Email coaching, guaranteed 24-hour reply.”

What is something like that do? That’s unexpected, is it not? It does, but here’s the thing. Years ago, I did research on a guarantee when I was in the corporate world. The research showed that less than 1% of failures will actually make a claim. What I found with free email coaching was the same thing. Less than 1% of that audience actually took advantage of it. However, I stuck to my word and I gave them 24-hour replies.

What did that do for your business?

It created relationships, people talking about it, and I ended up getting more referrals. I’m a very passionate person when it comes to my areas of expertise. I love to share and I want people to live a full life and live their dreams out and use ROTI to their best advantage. I want them to take advantage of the limited time we have on this earth and make the best of it. A personal marketing plan is all about positioning yourself as an expert so that you don’t have to go up there advertising and stuff. I look at inexpensive ways. How can one market themselves, how can they position themselves as an expert? What can you do? Then we have discussions around that and a lot of times I didn’t even think about it. I just did it because I don’t think, I just do.

Let me ask you to just jump in for a second. You’re talking about going out and speaking and creating content, writing articles or books or things of that nature. A lot of people will be listening to that and saying, “That’s hard work. That takes time, Bob.” How do you respond to them? What do you say to those people? 

There are two words that will give you 200% performance. Both words, when transcribed from letter to a numeric value, like “A” being letter one, both these words give you 100%. You add them together and you apply the two of them together. You get 200% performance. Before I get that, let me ask you a question. Who is the most important person in the world?

Myself. 

That’s what you have to do. The first word is attitude. Attitude is under whose control?

For myself. 

It’s 100 % under your control.

You just asked me this. I know it’s going off a little bit here from the usual, but when you asked me that question, who is the most important person in the world? I struggled with that for a moment because my gut reaction was really to say my wife, my daughter, my family, but I recognized it’s the lesson. I shared this with clients often. It’s like when you go onto an airplane and they tell you that if the cabin pressure drops, you have to put the mask, the air mask, an oxygen mask on before putting it on others. I always think, “If I’m not at my best, if my mindset isn’t in the right place, if I can’t take care of myself and be happy, then how can I take care of anyone else?” That’s why I went with it. I just wanted to share it, because maybe others might be feeling the same way that moment.

Most people do and they’ll say their wife, their mother, their parents, all kinds of things. The thing is this, if you can’t take care of you, you can’t help anybody else. If you can’t give something to somebody else, if you don’t have it inside to give away. The second word, and you can guess the word probably. It’s a commitment to the most important person in the world. It means doing what you have to do even when you don’t want to do it. That word is discipline.

Let me ask you a question, Michael. What’s the most productive time of your day? What would happen if you dedicated one hour of your most productive time to the most important person in the world every day? What do you think would happen? You’ve already witnessed the results. This is part of my daily disciplines. I used to get up at seven o’clock in the morning, have a coffee, then I realized that was a morning person. I got up at six. Six to seven, I would review my goals. I would visualize, I would do anything to help me get where I want to go at seven o’clock. This is an important part. Any behavior that gets recognized and rewarded gets repeated.

At 7:00 in the morning, my reward would be my first cup of coffee. As I drink that cup of coffee, I give thanks to the fact that I can have a cup of coffee, while millions of people out there can’t get a clean glass of water. My day starts like that. I have daily disciplines, like I reply to emails same day. I have so many of these disciplines built in. They become habits, but they become effective habits. That’s what we have to do, is take the time to reflect on what are our ineffective habits and what are our effective habits. How can we reverse ineffective into effective? If you’re a procrastinator, what can you do? How about do it right now? Don’t think about it.

What’s the worst thing that can happen? You fail. If you fail, you learn. At age 22, I gave myself permission to have ten learning opportunities a day. In other words, permission to go out and fail because I know that you’ve got to fail often to succeed once, but I accept it. When something goes wrong, I don’t beat myself up for the failure, I look for the lesson learned. The minute I get the lesson learned, I tap myself on the back and say, “Good one, Bob, you failed, but you’ve got a lesson out of it. Keep up the good work.” I’m building up my confidence and my courage whereas most people are destroying their courage and their confidence.

CSP 45 | Engage Buyers In Consulting

In my book, The Elite Consulting Mind, I think a lot of people in our society look at failure as a bad thing. I instead suggest that we look at it as a learning experience. If you think about it in terms of learning experience, the more that you “fail,” the more that you learn. Even if you’re getting a negative response, meaning that what you’re doing isn’t working in terms of getting to where you want to go, you now are helping yourself because you’re working through the process of elimination. You learn something that doesn’t work, which means you’re closer to figuring out what does work. 

Just keep plugging away is the key thing and notice these things and don’t let them take it down. Rejection is another thing. People fear rejection. You’re rejecting yourself. We have this thing called identity and role. We get caught up in our role so much that we forget our identity. Then when you get rejected, are they rejecting your role or are they rejecting your identity? It’s really your role, but we take role failure over to identity. We beat ourselves up, we lower our self-esteem, our self-confidence and then we’re not as productive as we could be.

Tell me more about that. What are the distinctions and differences between identity and role?

Let’s take a look at it. The way I usually put this across is I asked the question, “Who am I?” Let’s use you as an example. Michael, who are you? Is it fair to say you will say like many other people, we will include our role in that definition, do we not? Yes, we have our role, let’s take a look at your role for a moment. On a scale of zero to ten, how would you describe your performance? Keep the answer to yourself because then I don’t want you to embarrass yourself, but I know you won’t. I know that for a fact, but let’s pretend you pick the three. Three is pretty low on a scale of zero to ten, you pick three because you’re new at your job, you don’t know it yet, or you hate your job and you can’t stand it.

You’re three. If you perform like a three, how does it make you feel about yourself, your personality or your identity? How does it make you feel? I’m sure anyone at that level would not be feeling very good about themselves. They’ll feel like at three, but let’s take someone who’s been in a job for fifteen, twenty years, 30 years. They know it inside out. They rated themselves as a nine, you know, not to be egotistical. They said nine. That’s pretty good and they probably know their job well and they are recognized for it and everything else. How does it make them feel about their identity? Nine as well. They come into work the next day and we say,” Michael, thank you for your 30 years of service. Due to downsizing budget cuts and all the rest of it, we no longer need you.” Your role goes from a nine to zero and with the loss of your role, you lost your job, you lose your role and it makes you feel like is zero and you go as far as leaving your family, becoming an alcoholic, turning to drugs, or even committing suicide like the movie Company Men. You see what happens.

What you’re saying is that the role is how most of us see ourselves, but it’s directly connected to our identity. One way to make this very relevant for consultants, in a sales conversation or a business situation, oftentimes people will crossover where they can be much more objective just looking at something in terms of their role. They take it more personally in terms of their identity and then react maybe too quickly or in the wrong way because of that.

Let me take you to the other side. What we just talked about is who am I now want you to answer the question? Who am I without roles? This puts you on the identity focus. Take a look in the mirror, the most important person in the world. How do you rate what you see? If you rate yourself, it’s three, it’s because you’re living your life from the outside in as opposed to the inside out. Your low self-confidence, low self-esteem. You became a doctor because daddy wanted you to become a doctor and you hate being a doctor. However, let’s say that the kind of person like you and myself who take the time during the day to analyze ourselves from the inside out, we know what we want.

We put a plan together. We take action. We don’t wait for things to happen, we make things happen because we’ve got a good strong identity. Put me in any role, put me in cleaning toilets. I will do a great job cleaning toilets. I’ll also do a great job as an executive or as a team leader or as a salesperson. Put me in any role because here’s the thing, I’m a nine. If you rate yourself as a nine, you’re going to perform like a nine. If you rate yourself as a three, you’re going to perform as a three. When I lose my role, I don’t go to zero. I stay as a nine because I am me from the inside out.

That reminds you of the book by Robin Sharma, The Leader With No Title?

That’s right. He’s a good friend of mine too.

Let’s go back a little bit to your business and away from mindset for a moment here. As you built your business, was it always speaking that worked best for you to get in front of ideal clients or did you ever find another method that for you worked better?

I think speaking was a big part of it. Having someone in Dubai to represent me was a nice aspect too. They got a commission on it, which works well. One of the things I need to point out, and I think consultants do this a lot, is they work on a fee basis and they’re the first to reveal price. I teach salespeople to never be the first one to put a price on the table. Always ask what their budget is. A lot of times, I set my fees at the beginning but my clients have continuously up my fees. Then once I get a client on the fee I say, “I’m sorry I can’t go lower because this last client paid this and I can’t justify going at a lower price.” The clients can drive fees for you. They have a budget and a lot of times we leave money on the table because we put our budget or our price on the table without asking them that.

What’s your feeling and view, Bob, on giving immense value for free to a potential client before you actually enter into a sales conversation? A lot of consultants, when they are entering into a sales conversation with a prospective client or even before they know they’re hesitant to give a lot of materials or value, whatever it might be for the fear of maybe giving too much. What’s your personal experience around that and how do you counsel salespeople and others that you work with in this area?

We have to understand how buyers buy. Step two in their system is they’re looking for free consulting. They want to know everything you know without paying a price. This is a standard thing. What we need to do is learn how to be in control of the sales process. How we do that is basically you establish that trust. Number one, build the relationship as we call it. There are various techniques to do that. Step two is we set ground rules or set the parameters. For an example is, I would say something like, “Michael, how much time we got left in our interview? What is it you’d like to accomplish? By the way, if I can help you, are you okay if I tell you no? If I can, I can be yes.”

In other words, could we just be honest and work on yes, no answers. This simple technique alone, setting the ground rules, setting the parameters shortens your sales cycle and it gives you more control over the process. We have a rule, we call it the 70/30 rule to distinguish it from the 80/20 rule. 70% of the time what should you as a consultant be doing when you’re with a client? We say 70% of the time you should be listening. 30% of the time, what should you be doing? Asking questions. If you add 70 and 30, you’ve got 100%. There is no room for talking. This is the whole thing. I ask this around the world professional sales people everywhere. I put them into teams. Why do we ask questions? The team that comes up the longest list of reasons why we ask questions. Everyone on that team will win a prize, but I’m looking for one particular answer. What do you think that one answer is? They don’t get it. Professional salespeople don’t get it. Then I go and I play a card game and I get someone in the audience to guess a card that somebody else is calling and basically it’s this. When you’re asking questions, you are in control. When you take a look at a consultant-buyer relationship, the buyer is asking the consultants questions and the consultant is answering them, the consultant thinks he’s in control, when in reality he is out of control. It is the business owner, that consultant, or the salesperson that should be asking the questions. The person asking the questions is in control of the outcomes.

Let me bring you back then to the question I had for you here to try and make it a little bit more specific for all of our listeners. I think people understand, although they don’t always practice. Something that I’ve talked about a lot before and other guests have as well, including yourself is the importance of asking questions. That’s really what makes it a consultant. A good consultant is asking questions and listening a lot. We’ve established that, but in terms of how much value you actually provide, how much do you give away if a buyer asks you, how would you handle this situation? 

If I give something away, Michael, I give it away in a self-discovery process that they own it. Asking questions is not just for information. Asking questions is to lead a conversation that they talk about their pain and the more pain they bought, the bigger the budget they’re going to spend on it. We lead them towards an outcome. It’s just not asking questions for information. It’s guiding you through the whole process to narrow it down, so that in the end the buyer buys, you don’t sell them. In other words, I can ask you questions for self-discovery. Who’s the most important person in the world? You discover that for yourself. You’re going to own that for the rest of your life that I didn’t tell you that. I guide you through the process by asking questions. I don’t close you, and that’s a word I would never use in sales. I empower you to buy.

Bob, you and I are very aligned because this is exactly what I share with clients as well. This way of thinking, not thinking about in terms of closing, but helping people empowering them, taking them through a process. They realize it themselves. I’m really glad that you made that distinction here for everyone listening because it is so important. Let’s talk about your sales training platform. Why did you create that? Why not just stick to speaking and training and consulting? Why go ahead and develop this learning platform?

Years ago, I was in the corporate world and I got moved into sales training and I was given a year to find a sales training program. I sat in on I would say 40 to 50 of the world’s best training programs only to see the same crap time and time again. Every once in a while, I see something different. What I did is I started to create a best practice. I created the best practice and we created the Velocity Selling System. The Velocity Selling System covers all elements of success. It’s as simple as ABCD. It’s about attitude, attitude towards yourself, attitude towards your organization, attitude towards the buyer. Then we look at behavior. Behavior towards yourself, behavior towards the organization, behavior towards the buyer. Then we look at competencies, what you need to be competent in that before you meet the client. Then we get into the sales system and then the D is discipline, doing what you have to do even when you don’t want to do it. We’ve got the complete framework.

What we did is because I found that it was getting ridiculously expensive. People would fly me to Kuwait, pay business class, put me up in five-stars hotel and pay me huge sums of money, and yet I found out I was getting out of reach and losing what my main focus was in getting people in a more affordable and accessible training. What I did is that I put it all online. I spent eight days in a studio in Las Vegas with Lightspeed Virtual Training and we put the complete sales program on video in modules and we sell it by the month, by the year. It’s an annual program. It’s continuous learning and it helps everybody go through it. If you want more information on that, it’s in VelocitySelling.com. Otherwise we have a lot of great resources at BobU.com could help people and asking questions. There are blogs. They’re on every component.

Bob, I really want to thank you so much for coming on here and sharing with us.

I really appreciate you taking the time. I believe the consulting industry is a fantastic opportunity. We often use the word mentoring, which includes consulting, coaching, and mentoring, of course all in one, but the bottom line is this. There are a lot of people out there on their own and it’s a very lonely business. You need someone to talk to. I found that even in my own business, as much as I had clients and friends around the world, I did not have someone to sit down and talk business with. A lot of times I’ve made decisions on my own and it’s a tough thing. People are there like yourself, like myself to help these people. All they got to do is ask and if they want to ask me, email, me, [email protected]. I’ll be more than happy to answer. On your behalf, Michael, because you’re the one that introduced me to your listeners and I’m willing to give back because I’m big on that, I’m at retirement stage but I am right at this point, passing on so much to so many people so that they could develop success of their own and take this to another level.

Bob, thank you again so much for coming on and sharing a bit of your story here with us.

I thank you, Michael. Have yourself a great day too.

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